E&OE TRANSCRIPT
SUBJECTS: Conflict in Israel and Gaza; anti-Semitism; Voice to Parliament; new Victorian Premier Jacinta Allen
SARAH ABO, HOST: You're watching Today, and the conflict between Israel and Hamas is right now on a knife's edge. In Israel, troops are preparing to launch a full-scale invasion, but it comes as Hamas threatens to execute an Israeli hostage every time a rocket is fired upon Gaza. Joining us to discuss today's headlines is Minister for Government Services and the NDIS, Bill Shorten and Neil Mitchell from 3AW in Melbourne. Thank you both for your time. Bill, I want to start with you. I mean, it seems as though we're staring down the barrel of a long and difficult war. It's absolutely harrowing what we're seeing come out of that region.
BILL SHORTEN, MINISTER FOR THE NDIS AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES: Ever since Saturday morning Israeli time, the murderous criminal assault against ordinary Israelis was just shocking. You know, thank God we live in Australia where our neighbours are thousands of kilometres away. Israel lives with neighbours who have never accepted its right to exist behind safe borders. It is shocking, but you know, Israel has got to get those hostages back. Just the scenes though, the footage of that music festival in particular are heartbreaking. The idea that 250 people who attend a music festival, which has one of its themes as peace, to be murdered in a war crime is just horrible. And of course, Australians stand with Israel's right to secure borders.
ABO: And caught between these warring states is of course, these innocent civilians who are losing their lives here. Neil, I mean, there are fears this conflict could spread beyond Israel and Gaza. Is that a real concern?
NEIL MITCHELL, 3AW: Yeah. I think it's a real concern because Iran's got its fingerprints all over it. And if Iran has proven to have been involved financing and organising it, and is very well organised, Israel will retaliate. They won't let them get away with that. And I agree with Bill about the tyranny of distance being a good thing for Australia, but it's going to affect us, it's going to affect oil prices and already we've got these divisions on the streets of Australia that defies understanding how some people are actually celebrating and supporting Hamas and Jews being told not to turn up to the to the Opera House last night. We've got to be better than that. Even some Greens MPs supporting the Palestinian approach. I mean, we have to be better than that in this country.
ABO: What is going on? Why are we seeing all I mean, it's not just, we've seen those scenes we just showed there in Sydney, but this is happening all over the world.
SHORTEN: Well –
MITCHELL: But I think I think in this country it's still -
SHORTEN: Let's rip the lid off this - sorry.
MITCHELL: Yeah.
ABO: Yeah. Go on, Bill.
SHORTEN: The truth of the matter is that some of the anti-Israel rhetoric has always been a mask for anti-Semitism. There are some people in the world who just hate Jewish people, and for a long time it's been, you know, hidden behind this rhetoric. It's about the state of Israel. It's not about Jewish people. But the truth is, last night, even in Australia, which is just disgusting, the idea that people are chanting anti-Jewish slogans, people have got the right to worship any God they want, or none. This is so - I know this word un-Australian gets used, it is un-Australian to attack someone because of what God they worship, and this is what it is. Let's call it what it is. This anti-Semitism is a shocking strand of this illegal -
ABO: Shocking no matter how you look at it, it doesn't matter which side you're on. I mean, we shouldn't be celebrating any kind of bloodshed like this. It's absolutely horrific. All right. Let's move on now. There are only four days until the final vote on the Voice to parliament and the yes vote is still trailing behind. Bill. Yes looks like it's headed for defeat. What went wrong? Because it seems a lot has.
SHORTEN: Ah, it's not my job to do the post-mortem while the vote's on. Let's just - I encourage Australians to look at the detail, to have a discussion about it.
ABO: Well, I mean, did the government fluff it Bill? At the end of the day, you're not going to get what you want.
SHORTEN: Well, at the end of the day, we haven't reached the end of the day. So, I know everyone wants us to get into the post-mortem. I'm not going to I'm still talking to a lot of Australians who haven't made up their mind. So, let's get out and talk to them about the issues. I mean, sure, this is about recognition in modern Australia’s legal birth certificate -
ABO: We know what it's about, but the point is that's not cutting through to the public. I mean, the polls might be wrong, you might end up winning. It doesn't seem that way because for months now the no vote seems to be getting up. I mean, Neil, something's gone wrong.
MITCHELL: Yeah. Albo’s blown it. He's mishandled the thing from day one and just assumed he'd get it through with the elites of the world. He'll wear this. It's. He's blown it. But you know what worries me more now is what happens on the 15th. Nobody seems to be talking past the referendum. We have to have a plan B. We cannot tolerate the continuing disadvantage of the Indigenous people. So, what's plan B? I talked to Noel Pearson the other day. He said there's no plan B, there has to be. The Prime Minister said it's an urgent problem. Well, what are we doing if the referendum gets up, how quickly do we fix it? If it doesn't get up, what do we do next? And nobody can tell me.
ABO: And we're going to need to address the hurt that will be there if no wins. That's the other problem, Bill, the country faces.
MITCHELL: It will. Division.
SHORTEN: Well, first of all, if the referendum succeeds or fails, the people of Australia will have expressed their view, and everyone's got to respect that. So, I know that's one thing which will be the case on the Sunday, that the nation, having had this discussion and debate, whatever verdict it passes on the referendum, we then have to come together as a people and move on and we will. In terms of supporting First Nations peoples, they do suffer disadvantage by virtue of the fact that they’re First Nations people and we'll have to keep trying to assist in whatever way we can. The shame of it is that putting people in our Constitution, recognising them in the nation's birth certificate and giving them a forum where they get listened to, you know, I think that is a good idea. In fact, I know it is a good idea. But if the people don't accept it, that's what we'll have to deal with on Sunday.
ABO: Just very quickly, we don't have much more time. But Neil, I do want to ask you about what's happening in Victoria with the new Premier, Jacinta Allan. She was warned in March about the $2 Billion blow out to the Commonwealth Games, yet the public didn't know.
MITCHELL: Yeah, look, Kevin Rudd's delighted because she's now taken over the mantle of Captain Chaos. It's a mess. It's a mess here. New taxes, there’s the Commonwealth Games thing, I made a prediction Daniel Andrews would be gone by October. I'll give you another one. Jacinta Allan will not lead into the next election.
ABO: You think it's that toxic, this situation?
MITCHELL: Oh, I think it could be. I think it could develop that much if I'm right. Keep the faith. If I'm wrong, lose it.
ABO: The trouble is, we need transparency. That's all we're asking for. All right, guys, thanks so much for your time. We do have to leave it there. Really appreciate you joining us this morning.