E&OE TRANSCRIPT
NIKOLAI BEILHARZ, HOST: Well, if you are really struggling to pay for some of the basics, maybe your fridge has stopped working or you need a new one, or you're struggling to pay medical bills. A new no interest loan program has been launched by the Federal Government. It'll be run by Good Shepherd Australia, giving interest free loans, loans of up to $2,000. Amanda Rishworth is the Minister for Social Services and is with us this afternoon. Minister, thank you for your time.
AMANDA RISHWORTH, MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES AND THE NDIS: Great to be with you.
NIKOLAI BEILHARZ: What does it say about our community that a service like this is needed and seems to be facing a lot of demand?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: This program has been going on for some time. In fact, the partnership between Good Shepherd and the NAB has been around for 20 years or so. But what the Federal Government's saying is we think have a role to play as well. Of course, for a whole lot of unexpected reasons, people might find that their car breaks down or their fridge stops working. And rather than turn to typically buy now and pay later, which can get people into a bit of financial trouble or indeed payday loans, this is a really important alternative that is available to people. But more importantly than just the no interest loan, it also connects people up with financial counselling and other support they might need as well.
NIKOLAI BEILHARZ: So, why do you feel like the Government has needed to step in? What hasn't been working if this scheme's been going along for 20 years?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, we've supported this scheme since 2009. We've been trialling first the NILS scheme and now we also trialled NILS for Vehicles, which is no interest loans for vehicles. And really the funding agreements were coming up for reassessment. We see a huge benefit in this and that's why we have committed for five years of funding this program. So, what our funding goes to is supporting Good Shepherd do the casework that they need to do to support a person, whereas the NAB provides the loan directly. But people do need support and it was wonderful to hear some stories today. But what we're committing to is $50 million to this program over the next five years to give it some certainty.
NIKOLAI BEILHARZ: And so it's open to individuals who earn less than $70,000 a year. $100,000 for a couple or person with dependants is part of the challenge that, you know, maybe not that long ago $100,000 used to be seen as a liveable household wage, but wages have not been rising anywhere near inflation.
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Firstly, I'd say what the funding is for is to help with those unexpected items. People do have to demonstrate that they can pay this back, but rather than go and, for example, get a loan from a payday lender. I heard one example today where the car loan was going to have 36 per cent interest on it. So, that obviously would put the individual into a real crisis point. So, that's where these loans come in. So, it really is looking for people that might need this extra support for the loans, the ordinary loans for sort of household goods, the maximum is $3,000. For vehicles, it's $5,000. So, we're talking about a small loan. The impact it's had on some of the people I spoke to today has been life changing.
NIKOLAI BEILHARZ: How many people are in crisis?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: In terms of how many people have applied for these loans, there's about, in total, 37,000 people in the last financial year that applied for these loans. So, these people are looking for extra support. Of course, there's other people in crisis that are not looking for loans. They might be looking for emergency relief. We've obviously got a range of different other supports. For example, if someone's leaving a violent relationship, this may not be the option for them. It might actually be the Escaping Violence Payment, which gives people $5,000 to set up a new home. So, there are different programs for different people, but this one in particular provides approximately 35,000 loans in a year.
NIKOLAI BEILHARZ: It is 28 past five. 891. ABC Radio, Adelaide. Nikolai Beilharz's with you for Drive. Also with you, Amanda Rishworth, the Minister for Social Services, is also the Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme. Yesterday we were talking about some articles that have been published online, including in the Australian Financial Review, which said that National Cabinet was going to move support services for children with mild autism and early developmental challenges back to the state and territory level and that services would be provided through schools, childcare centres and other government settings. Just quickly, a couple of issues there, starting with the shift of responsibility to schools, early childhood centres and the like. Can you confirm that responsibility is shifting?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: No, that’s not correct. I need to dispel that myth completely. What was agreed to at National Cabinet was making sure, and this was recommended in the NDIS Review, that there would be extra supports for people that may not need an individualised NDIS plan but still have needed some support in terms of their developmental trajectory. They were what the NDIS Review called foundational supports and they were disability specific supports. The locations of where they would be delivered are still being negotiated between the Commonwealth and the states and territories. There was a commitment of 50/50 funding from both the Commonwealth and the states and territories, but it was not about taking people and reducing access to the scheme. What it was is identifying that there are a group of children that are not getting the support now. And we needed to build that support up, but it is not being foisted onto schools or other places. The concept of foundational supports is being still worked up with states and territories to identify the best locations, deliver them.
NIKOLAI BEILHARZ: Is the reality though that schools’ early childhood care centres will need to put on some extra additional form of support though if responsibility is moved to them?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, the responsibility is not going to be moved to them. What it was identified that these could be locations in which perhaps allied health could deliver support. So, I need to be clear, the responsibility is not being put onto schools or childcare centres. What we were talking about when it came to foundational support was making sure that perhaps they were the right settings to deliver these supports in. Now that doesn't say that schools and other early childhood settings shouldn't be looking at how they move to more inclusive education. That's something that is in Australia's Disability Strategy and something that we continue to work towards. But certainly it was never envisaged that schools and early childhood settings would have to take on this responsibility. The delivery of foundational support is being currently worked on between the states and territories about how best to deliver. But there is still access through the NDIS for those with developmental delay or that need early intervention. That they are the early intervention and developmental delay pathway. Where we were talking about foundational supports is where those supports might be better delivered outside the NDIS or indeed for children that are not being able to access those supports at the moment.
NIKOLAI BEILHARZ: OK, and just very quickly, the use of the term mild autism, should that have been included?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Look, I'm not using that term. Everyone is individually assessed. But what we know is, for example, and I'll give an example here, is that with putting the right support around a child very early on can actually, and this has been demonstrated through the Inklings program which we are jointly funding with the South Australian Government, putting the right parenting supports in place for a child might mean they don't get a diagnosis of autism later on because they are on a strong developmental trajectory. So, for me it is about making sure that people are getting the right supports where they need it, when they need it. For some children, individualised clinical supports might not be the right answer. It might be another type of supports.
NIKOLAI BEILHARZ: OK Minister, just before you go back to the cost of living side of things, we heard from Linda who rang into Rory McLaren on 891 Mornings. This morning, here's a bit of what she had to say.
Audio of interview:
Linda: I've never been so insulted by a government giving a pensioner $4.60 a fortnight pay increase, saying it will give us a boost. And I am beyond anger, frustration, being insulted. How dare they think that $4.60 a fortnight is going to change my life? It's appalling.
Rory McLaren: Are you by yourself, Linda?
Linda: I am. I live alone and I'm in a retirement village which I put all the money I had in the world in and it was great and I love it. My motor insurance has gone up 30 per cent. My health insurance gone up about 15 per cent. Everything I go, I ring around, I use a spreadsheet. I'm the best budgeter that you will ever know with what I do with that pension. And then I get the biggest insult and kick in the teeth by a government thinks that $4.60 a fortnight is going to help just beyond anger. There's so many people I've spoken to who are in the same boat, they are devastated. I want to look at Albanese in the eyes and tell, ask him, what am I going to do with that $4.60, Anthony, what am I going to do with it?
NIKOLAI BEILHARZ: Amanda Rishworth, what would you say to Linda?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: I understand that a lot of people are doing it tough. What I would also say is the way that the indexation is applied to the pension has not changed. There's a formula that gets applied twice a year and over the last, since we were elected, that formula has delivered about a 16 per cent increase in the pension. It's based on basically a better off over all three tests. So, there's three different measures and the best one is applied. So, this has been the same way that indexation has been applied since 2000 and 2009.
NIKOLAI BEILHARZ: Does that need to change, though?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, it has been set in a way twice a year, it takes the best of three tests. But I would say what our Government has also been doing is looking at other ways we can help pensioners. For example, the cost of the PBS for concession cardholders has been frozen for three years. Sorry, for five years at $7.70. There's been energy bill relief of $300 for households over the last two years. So, we've been looking at ways we can help, particularly pensioners. Rent Assistance has had, for example, a 45 per cent increase in the maximum rate. So, we've been looking at how we can best support people and support pensioners. Of course, it is tough, but back in 2009, it used to be only set by CPI. It was actually a Labor Government that changed these settings. Now, I would say also Peter Dutton has said that this type of indexation is wasteful and that he would review whether indexation is actually applied. He's called it wasteful spending. So, while I understand it is difficult for people, it is the settings and the way it's been set back since 2018, where it was changed to be a more generous indexation. And we've looked at other ways we can support pensioners with cost of living support as well.
NIKOLAI BEILHARZ: Minister, thank you for your time this afternoon. Amanda Rishworth, the Minister for Social Services.