E&OE TRANSCRIPT
Topics: Labor reform of the National Insurance Disability Scheme.
DR GEORGE TALEPOROS, HOST: Minister Rishworth, welcome to the show.
AMANDA RISHWORTH, MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES: Thank you for having me. It’s great to be with you.
GEORGE TALEPOROS: It’s so good to have you on. You are now the Minister for NDIS, and that’s on top of your role as Minister for Social Services. That’s a lot – a lot for one person. How’s it going for you?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: It’s going really well. There’s a saying, give a busy person a job because you know they’ll get it done. But look, it’s really well. I think there’s a really lovely synergy between of course the work I was doing as Minister for Social Services under Australia’s Disability Strategy and some of the reform we’ve been doing in the Disability Employment Services, for example, to have that alongside the National Disability Insurance Scheme, because of course we need to be – in addition to making the NDIS the best it can be, in addition we need to make sure our communities, and Australia, is more inclusive of people with disability to ensure that people can be part of community. So, I have really enjoyed – I’ve had a good relationship with a lot of people within the disability community. So, by taking on the National Disability Insurance Scheme, it really adds to that work that we’re able to do to make Australia a more inclusive place.
GEORGE TALEPOROS: Absolutely, that’s so important that we’re heading in that direction. Now let’s talk about Support Needs Assessments. This is a major change that’s coming for NDIS participants, and I understand that it’s going to commence in September of this year. There’s a lot of apprehension and concern about what this means for our community. Can you walk us through what these assessments might look like?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: I really want to reassure participants that the new Needs Assessment work, we’ll be really taking a whole person approach, which I think is really important, and ensure that their support needs as a whole person are properly assessed, rather than focus just on functional capacity. So, I think as a principle that’s a really important principle, and look at how people can be best supported. I think in terms of the rollout, I think I need to be clear and reassure people here, it’s not expected that in September everyone will go to the new planning framework. It is expected that this planning framework will be rolled out over five years. So, I just wanted to reassure people this isn’t a big change that’s coming in right away, but we are working, and the NDIA’s working, on what some of the tool settings will look like, and then we’ll be working with states and territories, along with the disability community, about putting the rules in place.
But I need to be really clear, a lot of people have raised concerns with me around the equity and fairness of decision making, and issues around transparency as well. What the new planning framework will be able to do it is really support planners in their decision making, while making sure that an individual’s goals and requirements are taken into consideration. So, this is a big bit of work, but we are working very constructively across the board. And I really do need to say that this is about looking at what support people need in a really clear-eyed way and supporting them with that. But in terms of rolling out, it is over a five-year period, and of course we’ll continue, as these things are rolled out, to refine the process as well.
GEORGE TALEPOROS: People are saying to me that they’re concerned about having their fund being reduced after having an assessment. What would you say to participants who are a bit concerned?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: This is really about making sure people’s support needs are met, and that there is transparency and equity in decision making, which is also really important. So, this is really taking a whole of person approach, which is really important as part of it. So, I’d like to reassure people that we are looking at how we can make this process better for people, and make sure that it’s strength-based, but importantly that their supports needs across the whole of person are appropriately assessed. And of course, if there’s other supports that are already out there available for people, that they will be connected up with those supports as well. A great example of that is our new Disability Employment Service, which we have revamped to put the needs of people with disability at the centre, incentivise providers to provide quality.
If a participant’s goal is to get employment, then we want to connect those participants up with our new revamped Disability Employment Service which is there to meet the needs of people, not just tick off, for example, mutual obligation requirements. So, we are opening that up to volunteers, people that would like to access it. So that’s just one example of where a whole needs assessment – if employment is a goal for people, that we can connect them up with the other Disability Employment Service as well.
GEORGE TALEPOROS: Employment’s incredibly important, I agree with you. The NDIS review said that we need to codesign these Support Needs Assessments, do you think that we have enough time to do that between now and September?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: I do think the agency is very committed to codesign, as am I. I think there is work to be done in which we can all work together to do this work, but I would say that we’re not starting from scratch. The NDIS Review spoke to a lot of people about the direction of the NDIS, there were thousands of submissions, the NDIA continues to work – and as I said, when we start rolling out the new support framework there will be of course unintended consequences that we may become aware of, and that we will refine the process along the way. So, I think sometimes there’s circumstances where until you start implementing something you need to listen to feedback from people within the disability community how it’s practically working on the ground. I’m very much committed to, in the leadup to the new Supports Needs Assessment, but even after that’s been rolled out, to make sure that we’re always refining, improving, and making sure the process is as seamless as possible.
GEORGE TALEPOROS: Refining is incredibly important, and that’s relevant to Section 10 and the interim rule, I’ve had – a lot of people have found that interim rule quite inflexible, and we’re talking about Section 10, the in and the out lists. Are you aware of the frustration that people are having with the in and out lists, and will you be looking at fixing the problems with the more permanent rule?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Obviously we responded with the Section 10 lists as a very clear guide to people about what is a NDIS support and what’s not, and I heard from a lot of people confusion about what people could spend their money on and what they couldn’t spend their money on. Of course, as we move to a more permanent list, which will be a new rule, of course we will continue to consult with people as we refine the permanent rule. But having guidance of what is a NDIS and isn’t a NDIS support doesn’t take away from the flexibility of how you use your money on NDIS supports.
The Section 10 list really is important guidance, which was already operational in many instances. A number of the things that are not deemed NDIS supports were already operationally not deemed, but there wasn’t the clear transparency about that. So, the new rule gives good transparency. But as we move to the permanent rule of course we will consider and continue to work with people where there may be some confusion or issues that need to be ironed out.
GEORGE TALEPOROS: That’s very reassuring, thank you for that. Let’s turn to the Royal Commission, that was a very important Commission for people with disability around violence, abuse, neglect and exploitation. The Commission found that group homes were often unsafe for people, and that we’ve seen more and more people being forced to live in group homes. So here at the Summer Foundation we really want people with disabilities to be able to build individualised living arrangements alternative from group homes, be part of the community and to choose who we live with and where we live. What is the government doing to enable more choice, so people aren’t forced to live in group homes?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Thank you for that question and thank you for your advocacy on the importance of choice and control in terms of living arrangements. There’s quite a bit of work being done at the moment, particularly in light of the eight inclusive housing recommendations. Firstly, we have announced, and I’ll just get these details right, funding of close to $50 million over two years to support better design and consultation on reforms to housing and living supports. And there is a new Supported Independent Living pilot under the Quality Supports Program to look at better models of delivery support for people and looking at those pathways for people. So, there is work being done in how we design and implement new innovative models of living arrangements.
Of course, in addition, what’s really important as we do that work is making sure that there is improved safety in existing places where people are living together, and of course part of that is about the – we’re moving towards compulsory registration of group homes as part – through the NDIS Quality and Safeguards Commission, and that’s I think really, really important, and making sure, for example, to have an NDIS practice standards, or a review of the NDIS practice standards for supported independent living. So, it is an area that the government is very focused on, and looking at what are the new models, how do we work on those new models to ensure people do have genuine choice and control.
GEORGE TALEPOROS: Thank you, I think that’s critical. I’d like to talk to your favourite topic, and that’s foundational supports. I know that you’ve been putting a lot of work into this, this has been a real focus for you. Can you give us a timeline of when these supports will be in place?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: We’re working with our state and territory colleagues on what these look like. What the review identified was that there were current gaps, and just as some examples, in terms of early intervention for children for example, before they may even meet the eligibility of the NDIS making sure that that type of support was available, family capacity building, individual capacity building as just some examples of supports that need to be available, that may or may not be funded as part of the NDIS, but need to be available outside the scheme. So, we are working with our states and territories on what that system might look like and build that system. We’re working with our state and territory colleagues very closely. It’s not expected that these supports would be all up and running at once.
As with many of these elements, it is being phased in, and we expect it to start being phased in at the second half of this year. So that’s what we’re aiming towards. But certainly, the idea is that we will be continuing to rollout this concept of foundational supports. As you may, or you would be aware, George, the old concept of tier two supports that would be available to everyone with disability, not just NDIS participants, was a key concept when the design of the NDIS had happened. What became really clear I think during the NDIS review is that many of what was envisaged are just not available. So, we’re working to build this new system. I need to be clear that these supports are envisaged to be there for everyone.
So, if we look at early intervention supports for children that might make up part of foundational supports, it’s not about children not getting access to the NDIS versus getting access to foundational supports, what it’s about is trying to provide support so early on that they don’t actually need the NDIS later down the track. So, this is the concept of foundational supports, and a really important I think misnomer that some people have suggested that these will exist – they will exist only for people that otherwise would've been on the NDIS. These are about putting supports in place to make sure there’s a solid foundation whether or not people are on the NDIS or not.
GEORGE TALEPOROS: Absolutely. We originally envisaged that the NDIS wouldn’t be the only lifeboat in the ocean, and here we are. So, I’m interested in whether you feel like these foundational supports will be in place in time so that people don’t fall through the cracks. So that something that you’re going to make sure doesn’t happen?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: There’s no plan to change access to people – the Support Needs Assessment is not reliant on foundational supports. Obviously, the Support Needs Assessment changes are looking at what someone’s support needs are and are not reliant on foundational support. So, I need to be really clear that a lot of the reforms that we are embarking on do not rely on having foundational supports, but we recognise that if we’re going to have a functioning Disability Support System, we need these foundational supports. If we look at the numbers there’s about 680,000 people that are NDIS participants, but 5.5 million Australians that identify as having a disability. Now some of those people are aged, some of them are in different categories, but the foundational support system is looking much more broadly than servicing NDIS participants. There are no changes we’re proposing to accessing the NDIS. We’ll keep working on those, but they’re an important complement to make sure that we’ve got a functioning disability ecosystem that works together.
GEORGE TALEPOROS: That’s what we need. Looking ahead there could be an election soon, if Labor does win the election what other reforms can we expect in the NDIS, and what will your key priorities be if you’re the next Minister?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: George, it wouldn’t be a surprise to say I hope that we do win, and I hope that I will get to be the Minister because I am really passionate about this work. I think there’s a couple of reforms that are on the agenda. Of course, there are reforms around how we build quality supports and quality services, and making sure we have the right safeguarding in place for people with disability. So, for me, whether it’s been in the Disability Employment Services, I was stunned that quality was not a – while it was a KPI, it wasn’t something that services were measured on. So, I think that people have a pretty varied experience when it comes to quality service provision. And so, I would like to see a focus on quality and safeguarding, and I think that’s really critical, and looking at how the NDIS Safeguards and Quality Commission can play an even more important role.
So, for me that is an absolute focus. It is building these foundational supports and making sure that we continue to invest, so that will be critically important. We will have setup our NDIS Reform Advisory Committee that will be doing a lot of work and working with the government. I very much look forward to working with them. We’ll be standing up our Evidence Advisory Committee. Really important to make sure that people with disability are getting the most – the best evidence supports available. That is really critical, particularly in the areas that may be contestable, that we get good evidence of what’s available there. And standing up that committee to make sure it has lived experience on it is really, really critical.
There’s work to be done in pricing as well. Making sure that we are pricing – that prices for services reflects quality is a key interest of mine, and making sure, once again, that quality piece, that people with disability are getting the best quality services. And ultimately, I think making sure that people with disability are absolutely at the centre of the NDIS. I think what became really clear to me before Minister Shorten stepped into the role. Under the previous government, the NDIS had become a system that had been built around people with disability, not with and for people with disability. And so, for me I want to bring that focus back, but also make sure that we’re maintaining the social licence that we need for an excellent, world class National Disability Insurance Scheme. They’re some of the areas I’m very interested in focusing on, along with, of course, the housing challenge that we’ve got in front of us.
GEORGE TALEPOROS: Natalie Wade [Associate Commissioner, NDIS Quality and Safeguards Commission] was before the Senate yesterday, and to see her as a woman with a disability in that role was fantastic, and the work that she did with the taskforce. I’m really excited about the self-directed registration category.
AMANDA RISHWORTH: That piece of work was absolutely excellent work by Natalie Wade, and that is something I’m certainly eager to have a really good look at and look at how we progress it.
GEORGE TALEPOROS: Finally, Minister, before we wrap up, we have a lot of NDIS participants and families and also providers that listen to this podcast. Is there anything that you’d like to say to them directly?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: I would like to say that it is not lost on me that the NDIS has changed lives, and I think it’s important, out there some of the media commentary can be quite negative, but I know as Minister how lifechanging the NDIS is, and I am very keen to work across the board with people with disability, service providers, to make sure that we have got the NDIS the best it can be. It does need to be sustainable, but of course it does need to put people with disability at the centre of it, and I look forward to working with all of you to make that happen.
GEORGE TALEPOROS: Minister, thank you so much for coming on the show, and all the best.
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Thank you very much. Have a great day.