E&OE TRANSCRIPT
Topics: COVID-19 pandemic; COVID inquiry report; Australian Centre for Disease Control; PLACE announcement; Qantas flight upgrades.
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: What would you do if Australia faced another global pandemic and you were again asked to make big sacrifices in the name of public health? A major review of Australia's handling of the COVID-19 pandemic has found many people will be less accommodating of those requests in the future, while warning another pandemic is likely to happen in our lifetimes. Now, the Government says a new disease control centre will help restore public trust. We're going to be joined now by Amanda Rishworth, who is the Minister for Social Services. She's going to talk to us about this and another scheme the Government's announcing today. Welcome to the programme, Minister.
AMANDA RISHWORTH, MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES: Great to be with you.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: The COVID inquiry found mistakes were made, but overall, Australia was one of the most successful countries in its pandemic response. Do you think history will give the Morrison Government more credit?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, look, I think really what this review tried to do is identify what can we do better next time and what actually worked. And so the report's been very useful in that. But what really, I think, came out of the report is we need to be better prepared in the future. I think that was one of the really key findings. How do we get in a position where we are better prepared to respond to something like that in the future? And I think in terms of key learnings of this report, I think that is one of the key learnings, that we need to be prepared for what may come next.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: You've promised to fund an Australian Centre for Disease Control, and you say it will restore public trust, but will that be enough?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, look, the public trust issue is a very concerning element of this report. If you remember back to that time during COVID you know, people were very compliant. But I think one of the elements is that this Centre for Disease Control will be independent, but I think importantly, it will be much more responsive and transparent with the evidence. I think that is one of the things coming out of this report that really talked about how do we make sure that the health data, the evidence, that what we're asking people to do is very much embedded in real-time evidence, is really critical. And I hope that as we build up this capability, this transparency, but also the real-time evidence, provides people with the reassurance that what we're asking them to do actually is something that they should do, because it's backed up by that real-time evidence.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: The coalition says this review didn't look at the states and territories. They are right. And given they were the ones that imposed some of these restrictions, isn't that a major flaw?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: This wasn't wanting to go over the existing reviews that have been done in states and territories. I think from the Commonwealth's perspective, this report was really about how do we prepare for a future pandemic. What are the lessons learned for the Commonwealth? It's very important that the Commonwealth is better prepared and that came through clearly both in its economic response and its health response. So, I'm focused on, as is the Government, what can we do better next time? And this report has been really important in identifying what went right, but where we could have adjusted the settings as well.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: You’re the Minister for Social Services and that involves really many vulnerable communities. It was in fact vulnerable communities, particularly when I think about the NSW lockdowns, that were disproportionately affected. Was that wrong with the benefit of hindsight?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, look, I don't want to second guess, but the report did highlight the disproportionate impact [the lockdowns] had on some vulnerable communities. So, I think that is really important. And what the report said is we, obviously, had to have a strong response to understand what we were dealing with, but how do we transition really quickly and weigh up the health benefits and the non-health risks, which were things at both economic but also wellbeing risks. So, this report does talk about how we better transition in different phases, but it did highlight that as a result of perhaps not transitioning from the initial response to the suppression response, that some vulnerable communities were particularly targeted or not targeted - that's probably not the right word - were particularly impacted as a result. And I think we have to be very much aware of that. The other element that really came out in the report is the impact on mental health and wellbeing. And I think that's something we need to be very conscious of and work into the future on repairing.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: I want to move to what you're launching today. You're launching a new policy that brings philanthropic donors and the Government together to take on entrenched social issues. How will it work?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Today is a really exciting day because we're announcing a new organisation called PLACE, which will be a not-for-profit, independent national organisation that will work with communities about responding to the issues that they know are in their communities, but in a way that they would like to see responded. Now, this is different, because this isn't the Government just giving a grant to an organisation to do this work. This is a true partnership where five philanthropic organisations are putting money on the table, with government, to create this organisation in true partnership, and it will work with local communities to get better outcomes and shift in some areas - which have been seeing entrenched disadvantage - to see things move. So, this is really exciting. There is really amazing work being done in communities when it comes to what we call place-based solutions. That's where communities have a say and help design the solutions. And money isn't top down, but it really is directed to where communities want. But it's pretty sporadic, and a lot of communities don't have the data they need, for example, this organisation will work with communities, so if they want to implement this type of response, they can.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: It's not a lot of money. So, how would it work? How do you get the money to actually be meaningful in a community that's identified as being high needs?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, this money is not about funding the services and support. That money is often there being provided by philanthropy and being provided by Government, but it's not being directed into the initiatives or into the areas that community want. So, what this organisation will do will work with communities and government and philanthropic organisations to get the money that's often already in their community, working better in programs that align to what the community wants. So, this isn't about funding programs, this is about doing the work, working on how to get the data, for example. A lot of communities have a gut feeling something's working, but they can't see the data. And where we've implemented this place-based response, we can see it really working. One example is the community in Burnie decided they wanted to focus on completion rates, year 12 completion rates and it has gone up since 2011 to 2020 by 86%. And so this organisation is about working with communities to help them build these responses and attract the investment and get the money working for their community.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Before I let you go, there's been a lot of talk about the Prime Minister in the wake of this book on Qantas and upgrades. There is a proposal from Peter Dutton that the Prime Minister should refer himself to the National Anti-Corruption Commission. Will he?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, look, I think that instead of focusing on the Prime Minister and his family, the Opposition Leader needs to start explaining about his upgrades, about his use of Gina Reinhart's private jet. I mean, the Prime Minister has been incredibly transparent about this. He has declared on the public record over and over again. But Peter Dutton seems to be absolutely focused on the politics of this and not on the substance.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: But you didn't kind of go to my fundamental question, which is, do you think this should be looked at by the National Anti Corruption Commission? If there's nothing to see, where's the harm in him referring himself?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, I think the Prime Minister, as with other members of Parliament, are required to be transparent through their declarations on their register of interest. And, you know, we've seen over the last couple of days many, many politicians from all sides having flight upgrades.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Have you ever asked for one?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: To be honest, I've got a young family and I don't travel into very many places, but I haven't asked for one. But I think that there are many politicians that have had upgrades. And so there's a register of public interest, so that it's all transparent. And, you know, if Peter Dutton is saying there's questions to be answered, he needs to answer the question, explain his use of Gina Rinehart's private jet.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: It doesn't have to be a competition between will you answer questions? Will you answer questions? Shouldn't, you know, both sides just answer the questions? And there are some additional questions that the Prime Minister has not addressed about if he discussed upgraded flights directly with Alan Joyce when he was Transport Minister.
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, I think that there needs to be a consistent approach. The opposition is making this completely political. It's a complete pile on the Prime Minister. Peter Dutton can’t explain his use of Gina Rinehart's private jet. So, quite frankly, I think there's a lot of politics here and a lot of hypocrisy from the opposition. I mean, we have Paul Fletcher, who's declared sixty-nine upgrades. So, I think what I'm pointing out here is the hypocrisy of the opposition playing politics with this.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Thank you so much for joining us, Minister.
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Thank you.