E&OE TRANSCRIPT
SUBJECTS: CFMEU; Green Hydrogen;
KARL STEFANOVIC, HOST: Well, criminals, corruption and a dark web of power. The CFMEU has this week faced a reckoning with the government calling in an administrator and cutting ties with the union's Victorian branch. Let's bring in Bill Shorten, who joins us live in Melbourne, and opposition leader Peter Dutton, who joins us from Brissy. Good morning, guys. Nice to see you. Bill. Your first up, did you seriously have no idea the CFMEU, their house was in such bad order?
BILL SHORTEN, MINISTER FOR THE NDIS AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES: No, I'm not a policeman. I don't get the chance to electronically listen to private transactions. But there's no doubt that the Government has acted. And the revelations this week were news. But I tell you what, we've acted. The administrator will straighten out. And the, there is no doubt, though, in my mind, that the CFMEU, this is not just a couple of rotten apples, that they have developed a culture of allowing themselves to be infiltrated by elements of organized crime. And that is, that is a betrayal of construction workers and all of the many millions of Australians who belong to unions and thousands of union reps who are honest and do the right thing.
STEFANOVIC: Can you guarantee the money received from the CFMEU in Labor Party donations is above board. Will you pay it back?
SHORTEN: Well, we've said that we're suspending all donations from the CFMEU. In fact, we've suspended the CFMEU from the Labor Party.
STEFANOVIC: Will you pay the donations back?
SHORTEN: Well, the last donations were over two years ago. We've taken the action to stop any financial relations with the CFMEU. And just to viewers we want to be really clear here. I don't believe this is how most trade unions operate. But there is a problem in the CFMEU and that can only be sorted out by having an independent administrator investigate all the proceedings that are going on there. No union. I mean, the power of unions is that they can take industrial action, but the idea that someone would be taking industrial action in procurement of personal benefit or criminal activity is an abhorrence and needs to be stamped out.
STEFANOVIC: Peter. Labor, as Bill mentioned, is appointing an independent administrator. If you win government, will you reestablish the workplace regulator? I mean the first-time round it didn't really have any teeth.
PETER DUTTON, LIBERAL PARTY: Oh, certainly we will, Karl. And in fact, we'll reintroduce that legislation for the building construction watchdog when we go back to Parliament in August. We hope the Government can support it because they abolished it at the request of the CFMEU. And as Bill, you know, reluctantly says, $10 million has been donated by the CFMEU to the Labor Party. That's, you know, it's a corrupt organisation, it's corrupt to the core. And that Bill Shorten and Tony Burke and Anthony Albanese are running around saying, you know, we didn't know anything about this. We didn't know the bikies had infiltrated the CFMEU. It's a complete nonsense. It's not believable. It's been made public for a number of years. And the problem is that the taxpayers who are working their guts out at the moment to just keep their head above water, their taxes are paying for this sort of behaviour because there's a 30% premium on every time the government pays for a road to be constructed, or a tunnel to be built, or a school or a hospital to be built. So Australian taxpayers are being ripped off. In a way, I think this is the biggest rip off of taxpayers in our history. And to a point, an administrator is the weakest possible path that Anthony Albanese could have taken. It should be deregistered. And as Bill rightly points out, the conduct of this union tarnishes the reputation of other unions. Bills union, the AWU is actually a good union and they're being tarnished by the actions of this corrupt union. They should be stamped out and the Prime Minister should show some backbone.
STEFANOVIC: Bill, why didn't the Prime Minister man up and de-register?
SHORTEN: Well, with respect to Pete, deregistration would just see the creation of a whole lot of mini CFMEU’s. And so you would be right where you started. Only an administrator can get to the bottom of making sure that there are the people who seek to be officers of that union, are honest and fit and proper people. But Pete says, oh, you know, breathlessly, oh, the governments, you know, knew about all this stuff. Well, you know, Peter Dutton's party when they're in government, they had a royal commission. I was there, they called me for two whole days. The point is, they didn't even send an angry tweet to the Victorian branch or the Queensland branch of the CFMEU. I mean, these bikies didn't turn up yesterday. According to Peter. What was the ABCC doing? Like, these guys act like, you know, they clutch their pearls and all act all shocked and outraged. Now, the reality is that when they were in power, they go after trade unions. They don't go after crooks. We want to go after crooks. And that's what I'd encourage Peter to do, rather than just simply say that all construction trade unionists are bad. But there is a problem in this union. We agree on that. I think an administrator is the quickest way to deal with it.
STEFANOVIC: Response. Pete.
DUTTON: Well, Karl the ABCC charged dozens and dozens of CFMEU officials over the last eight years. $19 million worth of you know, costs have been awarded against the CFMEU or fines have been imposed on the CFMEU. And I mean, this is a lawless union. It's got the bikies involved. They're standing over, you know, good workers and And it's not what a union should do. The AWU could come in and represent these workers. If you de-register the CFMEU, you stamp it out. That's exactly what Bob Hawke did, because he had the guts and the backbone to stand up against a militant, corrupt union in the BLF. Anthony Albanese isn't a patch on Bob Hawke, and he's just demonstrated again how weak and pathetic he is as a Prime Minister.
STEFANOVIC: Okay, Andrew Forrest will slash 700 jobs as the company scales back its green hydrogen targets, a key part of Labor's plan to transition to net zero. Bill. Labor has spent $8 billion investing and supporting green hydrogen. How'd that go down yesterday. Well first of all what Andrew Forrest does is up to Andrew Forrest. He's a businessman pursuing his interests. I'm interested in how we have reliable energy for the future. And really there's two choices in front of Australians. We move towards renewable energy backed up by gas, or we perhaps go down the nuclear unicorn fantasy that Pete's suggesting that it will give us potentially cheaper nuclear.
STEFANVOIC: Bill, that 8 billion, that 8 billion that you spent investing in supporting green hydrogen. Waste of money?
SHORTEN: No, that's, the hydrogen technology is still a valid technology. You know, I don't. Mr. Forrest's balance sheets up to Mr. Forrest. Businesses rise and fall. I mean, under the Liberals, 22 coal power stations were announced to be closing. I didn't notice the Liberals say that coal was bad.
STEFANOVIC: Okay. Pete 10 seconds?
DUTTON: Okay, look, it's a tough day for 700 Australians, so thinking of them first. But this is just another, you know, demonstration of the fact that the wheels are falling off Labor's energy policy. Green hydrogen is actually what they're saying will be the firming up power for renewables. It's not going to happen. We want to do what every other major country is doing in the world that is firm up renewables with gas and with nuclear. It's a zero emissions technology. We're not going to meet our emissions reductions targets without it. And the Labor Party is going to keep driving up prices, and families just can't afford another three years of this hopeless Labor government.
STEFANOVIC: All right I really wanted to get to this last question. I'm going to persist, a personal question to the electorate that needs to be answered this morning. You guys need to be honest, Bill, you're first up. 1 in 10 Australians don't let their dog see them naked, do you?
SHORTEN: What was the question?
STEFANOVIC: Come on, Bill, do you get naked in front of your dog?
SHORTEN: No, no, 1 in 10 dogs. Oh, listen-
STEFANOVIC: 1 in 10 dogs are naked.
SHORTEN: My dog's naked all the time. Yeah, okay, yeah. Why not? Yeah. That's true. I mean, I love my dog and my dog he never gives up a secret. He's never, he's never ratted me out, ever. Loyalest friend I've got in politics.
STEFANOVIC: All right, Pete, you quickly.
DUTTON: Well, Karl, I was just happy that Bill went first. But even with all that time, I still can't think of a response. I'm sorry.
STEFANOVIC: All right.
DUTTON: I love Ralph, too, but, but not in the same way Bill's talking about it seems. I don't know, but I'll spare Ralph any drama.
SHORTEN: I love Ralph too, Ralph’s a fan of mine. I think Ralph votes for me!
STEFANOVIC: Thank you, guys.