E&OE TRANSCRIPT
SUBJECTS: NDIS; Albanese Government’s cost of living measures;
JAYNE AZZOPARDI, HOST: A million an hour. That is how much the government claims a delay to new NDIS legislation will cost taxpayers. Labour now launching a ticket to count the cost after the Coalition and the Greens voted to delay reforms that are designed to stop rorting of the system. So, let's bring in NDIS and Government Services Minister Bill Shorten in Canberra and Shadow Minister for Finance Jayne Hume in Melbourne. Good morning to you both. Bill, you are clearly not happy about this, but even if you can get these costs reined in, we're hearing this morning the NDIS will be more expensive than the aged pension within a decade. Is it sustainable?
BILL SHORTEN, MINISTER FOR THE NDIS AND GOVERNENT SERVICES: The NDIS is changing lives. It's helping hundreds of thousands of people and their families and it's employing hundreds of thousands of people. It's doing a lot more good than harm. So, yes, it is sustainable in the future, but we've all got to join in to make it sustainable for the future. That's why I was incredibly disappointed to see that after legislation which has been the subject of a twelve week Senate committee, the Greens, and inexplicably the Liberals, decided they wanted more time to consult over the next eight weeks, even though the actuary of the scheme has said that delaying some of these reforms to close down loopholes will cost participants and taxpayers a billion dollars over the next 40 days.
AZZOPARDI: Jayne, do you take responsibility for that billion dollars? Is it worth it?
Jayne HUME, LIBERAL PARTY: Well, the Coalition agreed that the NDIS is fundamentally important because Bill's right. It does change lives. It gives some of our most vulnerable Australians, those with disabilities, a chance for a better quality of life and access to the supports that they need. Which is why it's so important that the Senate is allowed to do its job, to scrutinise the legislation that Bill has put.
AZZOPARDI: But Bill said you already have twelve weeks to look at it. Isn't that enough?
HUME: The Coalition will support the sensible recommendations that are in this legislation. But Bill also didn't tell you that he dumped a whole series of amendments on that committee at the last minute and then expected the Senate to pass that legislation amended without any further scrutiny. Stakeholders are coming to us and telling us that they're concerned about how these changes are going to affect. It's much better to do the work now, get the job done and then pass the legislation rather than find out that there's unintended consequences when it's too late and the legislation's been passed. Bill, you've had two years to do this. Two years. And now you expect the Senate to turn on a dime once you've dumped a million dollars.
SHORTEN: Jayne, let me answer that point. First of all, a Senate shouldn't take 20 weeks. The Opposition and the Greens have been complaining that we won't compromise.
HUME: Hang on, the Government shouldn't take two years.
SHORTEN: Well, sorry, but now you're saying we're going too slow or we're going too fast. It can't be both. The truth of the matter is that there's some simple propositions which don't require 20 weeks to analyse. And I'll tell you what it is. At the moment, people are expending their plan. They get a twelve month plan. Now, what's happening is that a lot of these plans are being spent before the twelve months. Now, in some cases that's legitimate. The wheelchair's broken, the initial assessment was wrong, but the agency who run the scheme have told me and we've told the parliament, that about two thirds of these plan variations, where the money gets spent before the twelve months, are not legitimate. This is a design flaw. It's been there, we've called it out. This is not just, oh, we want to make sure we look at every amendment. This is a $1 billion delay, Jayne, in a cost-of-living crisis. The idea that we need to have more chin stroking and more analysis of amendments, which, to be honest, we can work out very easily, is just an excuse for, in my opinion. It's not you personally, but it's just such a stupid, wasteful action. It's horrific and obscene when we know what we've got to do. And at the end of the day, you're probably going to vote for it anyway. So, why are we wasting, as the clock shows, a million dollars an hour while you guys get your act together to look at plain English?
HUME: We will vote for it, but we're also going to amend it to add more integrity measures around the system Bill, because the stakeholders are telling us that this isn't good enough.
SHORTEN: But why. So, I'm either what, too tough, too soft, too quick, too slow? Come on.
AZZOPARDI: And while you guys are arguing about this, everyone sitting at home eating their breakfast has another issue that they want us to talk about, which is the cost of living. So, if you don't mind.
SHORTEN: Well, this is a cost-of-living issue, Jayne. And anyway, we've got next week in the Senate, I invite Jayne and the liberals rather than let's burn a billion dollars on the national credit card, sit down with me next week and let's thrash it out. Let's, for God's sake, not waste a billion dollars.
HUME: Let's talk to stakeholders because that's who this is about. It's not.
SHORTEN: Jayne I've met more stakeholders than the whole of the Liberal party ever will.
AZZOPARDI: I do want to get to our next topic because people at home are struggling with their bills, they're struggling with their mortgages, and now they're hearing there is no light at the end of the tunnel because inflation has surged to 4%. Jayne, this means a 14th rate rise could be on the cards. Can people handle this?
HUME: Well, I'm the chair of the cost-of-living committee and I hear every day that families are struggling to put food on the table, to send their kids to school, to keep their lights on, to keep the doors of their businesses open. This rise in inflation certainly won't be good news for them. A lot of them are at breaking point. The potential for another rate rise would send chills down their spines. We want to see the government take this seriously and use their fiscal levers, not just rely on the RBA to do all the heavy lifting to bring down inflation. Because clearly their budgets are making the RBA's job that much harder, making the situation worse. And Australians are paying the price bill.
AZZOPARDI: You and your colleagues must have had a collective groan when you saw that inflation figure come out. We know you've got your tax cuts coming into play and energy rebates from the 1 July. I mean, that's welcome relief. But are you worried its fuelling inflation even more?
SHORTEN: No. The cost-of-living relief we're doing is tapered in a way. It doesn't cause inflation, but it does help with the energy bills. $300 available from next Monday. The tax cuts are necessary. When Labor came to power, inflation had a six in front of it. Now it's got four. It is difficult. Like, we're groaning. Not for us. We're groaning because we want to make sure that people are able to make ends meet. But between cheaper medicines and some of the other measures, the fact that low paid workers are going to get some modest increases, we're doing a series of measures. I would just say in terms of the cost-of-living issue, though, Jayne and I could sort out saving a billion dollars. She just said there's going to be a fiscal. We need more fiscal levers. Let's not waste money next week on Senate committee games when in fact we could just help the NDIS. And that's going to help cost of living. Like sometimes we just have an opportunity to do practical things. So, let's do it in the Senate next week on the NDIS.
HUME: Actually, your cuts to the NDIS have already been factored into the budget. I think that there's more important decisions that can be made.
SHORTEN: When would a billion dollars not become worth a billion dollars? Jayne, that's a real let them eat cake attitude.
AZZOPARDI: I think we need to get you both in the same room to be talking about this. But thank you for talking about it on our show this morning. Bill Shorten and Jayne Hume. Thanks for your time.