E&OE TRANSCRIPT
CHRIS O’KEEFE, 2GB: Well, we’ve been speaking a lot about the waits to get Centrelink applications processed, be it the Seniors Health Card, be it Age Pension, the Disability Support Pension, or whatever it is, it is taking a very long time. Now, we ran you through some states because I thought it was pretty stark, and to me, it looked pretty simple right? As soon as Labor got into government, the Albanese government, the average days to process Centrelink payments and applications effectively doubled, all under the Albanese government’s watch and under Minister Bill Shorten’s watch.
Now, look at these numbers: Additional Childcare Subsidy transition to work, so during 2021-2022, that took 39 days to process. Now, it takes 98 days to process. 46 days for a Disability Support Pension, now 80 days. 33 for the Age Pension, 61 days now. And that is if you can get onto them, so Centrelink is almost impossible to get anybody on the phone, and we’ve had person after person after person ringing us, sending us emails about their issues, about how they just couldn’t get their applications processed by Centrelink, and you were pulling your hair out. So, I personally sent a whole bunch of your problems to the Minister Bill Shorten, he was kind enough to look at them personally, and today he has announced he’s hearing you loud and clear, Centrelink isn’t working. So, they’ve got $228 million, and they’ve got 3000 more people to man the phones and process these claims. I'm pleased to say the Minister Bill Shorten, is on the line. Minister, thanks for your time.
BILL SHORTEN, MINISTER FOR THE NDIS AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES: Oh no worries, Chris, but just you didn't - one of your openings wasn't quite right when you said about the delays increasing, What you forgot to mention is that in the previous two years, the workforce had been boosted for Covid and they were ramped down courtesy of the predecessors. So that's an explanation. But the other thing to mention is demand is up. Demand is up on previous years. So not only do we have that, it's like the two jaws of the snake, we’ve got a decreasing number of people and we've also got more people than ever asking. And just the other thing I just want to say, in defence of the crew who work at Centrelink, they're answering a million calls a week now. Now, there's well more than a million calling in, so if you don't get your call answered, I can understand why you're angry. But just for the record, a million calls a week get dealt with.
O’KEEFE: Sure, all that sounds like a bit of an excuse, though, whichever way you cut it.
SHORTEN: No, no, these are just facts. You can either pour grief on it, but it just got to be balanced.
O’KEEFE: Sure, but has it blown out under your watch or not?
SHORTEN: It's increased. Absolutely.
O’KEEFE: Okay. And there's a justification for it, you're saying.
SHORTEN: Yeah, well can I tell you what, in 2015, before the Libs introduced Robodebt, there were 3800 more people. They've wound them back. And the only reason why there's - get this, why the Libs love giving us a lecture on call waiting times, get this, they didn't count the calls that were hung up on – like, they just didn't measure it. So, when you look at average waiting times, they never - it was only during Covid they bothered to measure all calls coming in, not the calls that didn't get answered. If you've got a congested signal under the Libs, you weren't recorded. At least we’re honest.
O’KEEFE: Yeah, with the greatest of respect though, nobody cares. They just want their applications processed.
SHORTEN: No, no, I know that's the golden rule. When someone says with the greatest respect, they don't mean that. But you're right about today's announcement. It's good. 3000 extra bodies, 800 have already been hired and are being onboarded, because you've got to understand the system before you can process people's payments. But I really want to blitz the payments because, you know, 20% of all calls are people chasing their payments, which is fair enough. So, the golden thing is, I've gone to my public servants, we've been working up this proposal for a number of months. I said, it's a real issue. We've got to fix it. The rest of the government agreed with me, and now we're rolling out 3000 people to, you know, really blitz the payment waiting list and then hopefully the calls as well.
O’KEEFE: Hard to find staff. Will you find the 3000 you need?
SHORTEN: Yeah. Well, it's a good job. We're not putting people into labour hire boiler rooms. You know, where they just do calls, and they get burnt out and turn over. These will be ongoing jobs in the public service. So, you know, I think it is actually worth people considering. And they're going to be all over Australia, not just in Melbourne and Sydney. There'll be hundreds in South Australia, Queensland, regional Australia, the West, Tassie, the Illawarra, Ingleburn. So yeah, they won't all just be coming from the CBDs of two big cities.
O’KEEFE: Good. You must feel for people like Mark Baker. He, you know 27th of July applied for a Seniors health card. That's not all that in-depth of an application, still hasn't heard back.
SHORTEN: Yeah. No, it's terrible. That's why the, I think you raised ten matters with us, I'm pleased to let you know we've resolved seven of them. One person wasn't the nominated person. So, they actually didn't have the ability to talk on this account. One person just can't be found. And the final of those matters were still resolving. But it shouldn't take you or me having to do it. We should have a better system. The public service has been run into the ground. You can't turn that around overnight. But we are hiring people for good jobs.
Speaker2: Are these call centre jobs, largely?
SHORTEN: No, they'll be calls and payments processing. Know they won't just be sitting in that stereotyped call centre. There'll be some people in call centres, but they're all direct jobs. So, you'll be working for the Australian Public Service.
O’KEEFE: Is there a better way to do this than just have a whole bunch of people sitting there answering phones and too many people ringing up?
SHORTEN: No. The obvious way if people want to, is to go online. Did you know last year we did 1.1 billion transactions online? But not everyone wants to go online. So, we've got to provide a service. Some people want face to face, but you know, 10 million people came into the 318 service centres last financial year. And then you've got a lot of people on the phones, literally 1.3, 1.4 million people ring every week. So, part of the way we fix it is just get the payments process quicker, then people don't have to, don't hassle.
O’KEEFE: Is there a fraud risk?
SHORTEN: There's always a fraud risk. But it's not I'm not going to overstate it. Most people use Centrelink and social services as straight up and down. But one thing we have learnt out of Robodebt is if you, and again this is the catch 22, if you do things too quickly, you don't check it and then you make a mistake and then you've got to ask for money back. I'd rather get the payment assessment right rather than have to litigate about a mistake. So, to be fair, the previous government did introduce, or the tax office, one-touch payroll and that also helps pre-fill data. I mean, the thing is you've got to get the right instructions. You've got to make sure the person's applying for the right thing. You still need a human to check these things at the end of the day, you can't just give it all to the computer as we've discovered.
O’KEEFE: And Services Australia. So, this will be there for Medicare as well. Medicare payments?
SHORTEN: Yep, Medicare, childcare payments. I mean, childcare payments, because they're more generous under the Labor Government has led to more people claiming them. So that's led to more demand. Parental leave -
O’KEEFE: And we're in a situation where two cost of living is an issue. Things are more expensive. People need their payments, right?
SHORTEN: And that's why I think it's important. Like I, I've been working on this proposal for several months. And, you know, I'm pleased that it's a big amount of money and a lot of people.
O’KEEFE: Why did it take so long?
SHORTEN: Because just got to - you can't just spend $228 million.
O’KEEFE: Well, you did, you did on the referendum.
SHORTEN: Yeah. Well, it was a clear matter that was outlined by the public that was done by the Electoral Commission. But, you know, I know you probably still want to debate the referendum, but to the matter to hand, payments, I want to make sure they're right. But anyway, it's good news. It'll take a while to hire everyone, as you say. But anyway, we've got the first 800 being onboarded.
O’KEEFE: Have you got a timeline for how quickly you reckon you can get these 3000 people into the offices?
SHORTEN: Oh, early next year. I want it done. Yeah. We're going now.
O’KEEFE: What happens if someone's listening and wants a job? Where can they find it?
SHORTEN: Um. Good question. It'll be advertised in Services Australia. Go to the Service Australia website. But I encourage people. Listen, public service are not high paying but they're reliable. If you sort of get into the groove of it. The other thing is there are good jobs. You actually help people.
O’KEEFE: What's it worth this job? Do you know?
SHORTEN: It depends which level you're getting to. But, you know, it's 70 to 80k.
O’KEEFE: Okay. That's not bad.
SHORTEN: It's not a king's ransom. But it's not bad. And if it's regular, ongoing, it means you've got something to talk to the bank about.
O’KEEFE: Yeah. Have you got something else, anything else on, on your plate in terms of at least streamlining or increasing or improving the productivity of Services Australia?
SHORTEN: Yeah, one of the issues is definitely it had been cut to the bone too much. And you know, leave aside all the free advice I get from the now opposition in government, other than Covid they'd cut to the bone but that is an issue. So that's one thing. The other thing is getting better use of technology. But we've got to reassure people that using technology is okay.
O’KEEFE: Because the problem is with using the technology is, look, if you're going getting a Disability Support Pension or parent payment or whatever it is, this stuff can be quite complicated and involved.
SHORTEN: Yeah. That's right. We've got hundreds of financial advice offices, aged care officers and social workers. They're all specialists, but it does, I can get that the system can be overwhelming. You can now make appointments before you come down to your Service Australia office and be seen. That's not a bad way to do it. Yeah. What we need to realise with government services is it’s about human services. So, you've got to have outreach. I've now got people working in all the frontline organisations like Bill Crews’ and others who help people who just couldn't even contemplate going to an office or off the grid. Then we've got 318 Service Australia offices, then we've got specialists within them, but then we've also got online. I do encourage people to try online if they can. A lot of people do.
O’KEEFE: Before I let you go this time next year, you're hoping are you going to promise, that it's better?
SHORTEN: Yeah, I'm going to do everything I can. I'm not going to die wondering.
O’KEEFE: All right, Minister, I appreciate your time. And thank you so much for all your help with all those people, too. I know that Tanya, Mark, Jeff, Julian, John, they all sent emails and you looked after them and I know they appreciate it too. So, thank you so much to you and your staff.
SHORTEN: No, people - it is a problem. And so, where we can we just try and solve it. But I also want to improve. We're going to make some more announcements even as early as at the end of this week about how we can better streamline Services Australia in terms of its decision making, but not by creating a - we're putting the human back into human services.
O’KEEFE: Good on you, Bill Shorten, I appreciate your time. That is Minister Bill Shorten, 131 873. If you've got any issues with Centrelink, do you think this is good, 3000 more public servants? Of course, it is. More staff, more money. It's all good stuff. And again, we appreciate Bill Shorten picking up the phone and ensuring that your emails and problems got solved because not many ministers do that. But Bill Shorten, he did it for you and he did it for us. So, well done.