E&OE TRANSCRIPT
PETER STEFANOVIC, HOST: NDIS and Government Services Minister Bill Shorten. Bill, good to see you. Thanks for your time this morning. I've got to start off with our top story this morning, and this is the theatre that is surrounding Donald Trump. Tomorrow, none of us have ever seen this before, a current or former US President who will be charged with a crime. What are your thoughts on that?
BILL SHORTEN, MINISTER FOR THE NDIS AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES: Well, at the top level, Australia doesn't comment about the internal politics of America, and we'll wait to see what the legal process evolves. I think though a lot of Australians are concerned - we need America to be strong and united and the ongoing legal scandals around former President Trump point to what I think some see as a tragedy in America. It's the division of American society. There's millions of people who vote for Donald Trump and have done and want to do so again. And they think that any attack on Donald Trump is a conspiracy. You know, I think we've got to hope that the American legal institutions are stronger than the partisan politics. Mr. Trump deserves the benefit of the presumption of innocence on any particular matter. We've just got to hope American institutions are stronger than some of the scenes, the tragic scenes of division and polarisation.
STEFANOVIC: If he wins the election next year, which is possible, your government will have to work with him. How do you, what do you think about that prospect?
SHORTEN: Well, the Australian Government deals with the leadership of other sovereign nations, regardless of personal views about particular aspects of politics. That's a matter for the American domestic democratic political system. But in the meantime, this indictment, which we'll find out more about today, is one of four criminal investigations against the former President coming to fruition. My thoughts are just with the American people. It's very polarising. There are some people who believe, you know, absolutely black and white that Mr. Trump is a political martyr. There's others who shake their head at where American politics has got to. We just hope that the American system of law is strong enough to withstand some of the attacks. I mean, for me, the scenes in January the 6th last year, where a mob attacked the bastion of American democracy, the Capitol Buildings, were shocking. And we've just got to hope that America could go through this latest amazing and unusual and scary and tragic bout of instability and get to the other side in one shape.
STEFANOVIC: So, do you think the US is strong, strong and - you still talk about strong and united - do you think America is strong and united with Donald Trump there and potentially President again?
SHORTEN: Well, they had an election in November of the previous year, and they changed leaders. I mean, the hallmark of democracy is that the people ultimately get to have a say in who the leader is. Whilst the January 6th scenes were shocking after that November election, America has proven stronger than its detractors. America is a strong ally of ours. We need them to be on solid footing. And I hope for the sake of all our friends in America that they can get through this latest quite extraordinary scenes of chaos. And, you know, no democracy is at its best when the fringes and the people at the margins are the loudest voices. So, we just need the centre to hold. We need the, where most I think people are in a democracy, somewhere in the middle - bit to the left bit to the right, and we just need the moderate voices of American democracy to be loudest - and even more than loudest, to be strongest. Again, this is proof, that the fact that there is a criminal indictment at one level is proof that no one is above the law.
STEFANOVIC: Okay. A couple of local issues, Bill, is the government about to ban TikTok on government devices?
SHORTEN: We know that Home Affairs is doing a review. We know that countries around the world have gone to this position, the government is yet to formally announce a position, but there is a legitimate concern that the information on TikTok is being harvested by the Chinese government. So, we need to make sure that government devices are secure. So, we'll wait and see what happens in coming days. But this is where the Europeans have gone, where a number of nations, comparative nations around the world, have gone. And that's, I think, sensible.
STEFANOVIC: Okay. So, I mean, you've got one of the larger followings on TikTok. Are you happy to give that up on a government phone?
SHORTEN: Already have given up on government phone. But I'm happy to give up the issue of being on TikTok if we need to set an example.
STEFANOVIC: Right. Okay. I mean, I asked Tanya Plibersek about that last week, too, and she's also got a large following. She was reluctant to give it up on a private phone, though. She'd like to communicate with her fans and supporters, etcetera. Are you happy with that, or?
SHORTEN: Yeah, Tanya's got a point. We do need - a lot of young people really do live on TikTok and, you know, we want politics to be comprehensible and engaging to younger Australians. On the other hand, I've got no hassle at all about being ahead of the government ban on government devices based on national security advice.
STEFANOVIC: What about the private phone though?
SHORTEN: Well, you know, I think I'm giving it strong consideration.
STEFANOVIC: Okay. What about beyond that? I mean, James Paterson on the program last hour, you know, he says we should be backing America in terms of divesting TikTok and removing its Chinese owners. Would you entertain that kind of thought?
SHORTEN: I haven’t turned my mind to that issue, I'll be honest. Let's see what the government announces in terms of a ban on government devices first of all.
STEFANOVIC: We'll see where that one lands. Okay. Just finally Bill, on the RBA today, any thoughts on where you think or hope the RBA lands?
SHORTEN: The RBA is independent of government. You know, I hope for mortgage holders that the news isn't bad news. Inflation is still 6.8. It's trending in the right direction. Labor's approach is to have repair of our economy and budget. to provide relief for working families. And in the budget coming up, restraint. Inflation is headed in the right direction. It's going down, but it's still 6.8% for the last quarter. But for mortgage holders, this is just incredibly tough. And so, you know, fingers crossed the news isn't bad this afternoon.
STEFANOVIC: Okay. Well, just on the budget, and just a final one here, I mean, are you making cuts to the NDIS when it comes to the budget? Have you firmed up your view on that?
SHORTEN: I wouldn't, the NDIS, I wouldn't put in the context of making cuts or not making cuts. I want to make the scheme better for participants and I want to make sure that the scheme, every dollar that taxpayers pay is getting through to the actual participants and delivering outcomes. I think if we have a better run scheme which is more focused on making it a more human experience for participants, less bureaucratic, making sure that some service providers are not treating participants as cash cows and human ATMs. If we can get that scheme working well and going towards outcomes, I think it solves a number of other problems that we see.
STEFANOVIC: Maybe better than Medicare's going Bill?
SHORTEN: NDIS is the area I sort of wake up in the morning thinking about, and I go to bed thinking about it. Okay, let's just make it a better experience for participants and I think it'll deliver some good outcomes.
STEFANOVIC: Bill Shorten, appreciate your time. Thank you so much. We'll talk to you again next week.