E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
ABC AFTERNOON BRIEFING WITH PATRICIA KARVELAS
THURSDAY, 30 JANUARY 2025
SUBJECTS: Antisemitism; NDIS; proposed environmental protection laws.
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Well, let's head over to Perth now to bring in one of my regular Thursday guests, Early Childhood Education Minister Anne Aly. Anne Aly, welcome to the program.
MINISTER ALY: Thank you, Patricia. Happy New Year, by the way.
KARVELAS: I know. Well, are we allowed to say that still? It's sort of –
ALY: Yeah. It's the first trimester, we’re allowed to say it.
KARVELAS: – deeply into January. If we can start on what are really horrific antisemitism incidents across the country, but of course, very acutely in Sydney at the moment. You were, of course, an expert in radicalisation before your time in Parliament and very much still, I suspect. You're pretty well placed here to give us some expertise. What is your view about what we're seeing emerge here?
ALY: Well, first of all, let me say, Patricia, that I think all Australians should loudly and unequivocally condemn not just the rise in antisemitism, but also the escalation of the ways in which these hate crimes are being manifested. This particular incident, the discovery of this caravan in Dural, has all the hallmarks of a potential mass casualty attack, and that should be something that worries and concerns every single Australian. Every single person in Australia has not just an obligation, but the power to fight back against hatred.
In terms of what's, kind of, what's fuelling this, there are always a number of factors. I think one of the things that we're seeing, as we saw in Adelaide last week, is the potential for certain hate groups, like white supremacist groups, to coordinate. Whereas in the past they didn't really have that potential to coordinate, there were often, you know, roughly brought together disparate groups of individuals with no real capacity to organise or do anything. We've seen that slight, that change in that trend there.
But, you know, I think that – I really want to say this, that, you know, an act of hatred committed against one part of our community is an act of hatred committed on all of our community. And these kinds of atrocities, this Jew hatred, needs to stop. I think every leader in this country has outright said that there is no tolerance for this kind of hatred in Australia. And I hope that message gets through loud and clear.
KARVELAS: You mentioned white supremacist groups. Is there any evidence that these are the groups behind what we're seeing?
ALY: Not that I know of. But, you know, I don't think you can discount that. I think that's really something up to the police to look at. I was referring specifically to some of the activities that we've seen by white supremacist groups and the prevalence, or the increasing prevalence, of some of their activities.
KARVELAS: And is this you suggesting – I'm just trying to nail this down – that I suppose, that it's not necessarily coming from members of the Arab or Muslim community, because we don't know really much yet, but there might be some people who think that is where this is coming from.
ALY: That's right. And I've read so much from certain commentators in the media as well, and I would caution against, you know, really pinpointing this to any particular community or group and really allowing the police to continue their investigations into the – into these incidences. But in their investigations, and as more information comes out, we'll have more clarity about what's behind, what's behind this and what motivates – what motivates and what mobilises people to commit such atrocities. In the meantime, we need to, you know, be on a unity ticket. Every single Australian, every single leader, regardless of your political stripes, needs to be coming out and unequivocally condemning, condemning these acts.
KARVELAS: Are Jewish Australians right to be scared Minister?
ALY: I've spoken to my local Jewish community, and I can tell you that the fear that they express to me is palpable. They are fearful. They're fearful about crossing the road in their local community. They're fearful of their, you know, their children going to school. And I understand that fear. You know, my community has been there too. And so, because I understand that fear and because my community understands that fear, we should reach out a hand of empathy to Jewish Australians at this time. Yes, they have a right to be fearful, and I completely understand that right of fearfulness. But importantly, they also have a right for safety and security, as does every single Australian.
KARVELAS: And does that mean there has to be – I know that Josh Burns mentioned to us before, there already has been an increase in the, you know, the levels of funding that will be expended on helping Jewish community members feel safer in their institutions. But should there be even more? Because Julian Leeser suggests that there needs to be a real increase here, given there's so much targeting; we're talking schools, child care centres. There's something really, really disturbing going on in the community.
ALY: Yeah, it's pretty sinister. That's how I would describe it. I'd describe it as pretty sinister, particularly when you're attacking schools and early learning centres. I mean, you know, who does that? Look, I think what Josh Burns was saying was that, you know, we've rolled out some of this funding to increase security and there's more to come. And I think that, you know, importantly, making sure that the Jewish community in Australia feels safe and secure, and every Australian feels safe and secure, is – you know, there's a range of things to do. And, you know, it's not just that we've got this funding. We also, in our first term, we outlawed hate speech, we outlawed the Nazi salute, we outlawed doxing. I think that there's a range of things that we've done and will continue to do to ensure that every Australian feels safe and secure in their homes, in their streets, in their communities.
KARVELAS: Do you think the Coalition has politicised antisemitism?
ALY: Look, what I'll say is this, Patricia. Peter Dutton has form, right? Peter Dutton has systematically demonised ethnic, religious and racial minorities for political gain. That's a documented fact. And so, you know, when I see the politicisation of Jew hatred and antisemitism, it really reminds me a lot about what we've seen in the past. The Coalition, when they speak about this, conveniently ignored the fact that they fought to have 18C removed from the Racial Discrimination Act and believe that people have the right to be bigots. Believe that people have the right to be bigots.
KARVELAS: But that was ultimately dropped. And if Peter Dutton was here, he would contest what you're saying, that he's targeting groups.
ALY: Not without a fight. Not without a fight.
KARVELAS: No. But he’s not here to make his –
ALY: We fought for it.
KARVELAS: He would argue that he's been a staunch defender, for instance, of the Jewish community.
ALY: And he's been a staunch demoniser of other communities. So, I'll leave people to make their own mind up about that. In nine years of government, four of which Peter Dutton was at the helm of the Home Affairs Department, not a single law was passed to outlaw hate speech. We did that in our first – in our first term. It's no secret that I absolutely abhor the politics of division. And when I see it playing out in this way, it really does – it really does make me quite upset. Because we need to, all of us, be united against hatred. Hatred against one person, against one group is hatred against all.
KARVELAS: I want to move to your portfolio, Minister, because you have a new portfolio. Congratulations.
ALY: Thank you.
KARVELAS: You are the Assistant Minister now for the NDIS, on top of your existing portfolios in Early Childhood Education and Youth. Have you carved out what it means? Because you obviously have another Minister in Amanda Rishworth, in terms of what you'll do, what role will your part have in terms of getting the NDIS under control, in terms of its, how much we're spending on it?
ALY: Well, still working through all of that, I have to say, Patricia. But I do want to say that I'm incredibly excited to be able to have the opportunity to work on something that I think is one of Labor's great legacies: the NDIS, which, you know, thus far I've met with sector representatives and with people who represent people with disabilities right across the gamut, and I'll continue meeting with those people as well. And thus far, the significant thing that's come to my mind is just how important the NDIS is and just what a significant difference it has made to people's lives. So, I'm just really honoured to be able to have the opportunity to continue to contribute to that. Still getting my head around all the detail. Patricia, it's early days yet, but my feet are firmly under the table and really working hard on this.
KARVELAS: Minister, I want to ask you just one more question which pertains very much to your state of WA. The WA Premier, Roger Cook, has spoken about the government's renewed push for those environmental protection laws. Here he is.
[Excerpt].
ROGER COOK, PREMIER: Now, I've got a message for those backbenchers, I think predominantly from Victoria, that think that this legislation should go up. Your standard of living, the reason why you can afford your long mac and your lattes is because of Western Australian industry and Western Australian economy. Do not for a moment think that we will stand by idly and allow you to damage our economy, because ultimately it would damage your standard of living.
[End of excerpt].
KARVELAS: You've heard him there. He's got a message for backbenchers, they're Labor backbenchers who are your colleagues, that these laws would affect WA standard of living. What's your response to that?
ALY: Well, Roger is a fervent and staunch defender of Western Australia, as he should be as a West Australian Premier, and as I should be as a West Australian representative in Parliament. Look, West Australians care deeply, deeply about the environment, but they also understand the importance of the resource sector, not just for the Western Australian community, but for all of the Australian community. I would say they have a pretty unique perspective in this regard. And what I think is a good thing is that we've got a Prime Minister who gets that. Anthony Albanese has been to Australia, to Western Australia, I think around 28 times. We've got a few more opportunities to welcome him to the great state of WA. And so, to see the Western Australian government working in hand with the Federal Government to ensure that, yes, we have environmental protection rules and laws in place, but that the unique West Australian perspective is taken into account in these laws, I think is a good thing.
KARVELAS: So, you're with Roger Cook?
ALY: I'm with WA.
KARVELAS: Is that Roger Cook, then?
ALY: That's WA. And if Roger Cook's with WA, which he is, then I'm with Roger Cook and WA.
KARVELAS: Anne Aly, thank you for joining us.
ALY: All the way.
KARVELAS: Thank you for joining us, Minister.
ALY: Thank you. Thanks, Patricia.