SUBJECTS: MP’s commercial flight upgrades; free flights from private sector; COVID-19 inquiry report
SARAH ABO, HOST: Well, the Qantas Chairman's lounge saga has dominated political headlines this week. The PM's relationship with the airline in the spotlight, receiving 22 free upgrades and chairman's access for his family without using a single frequent flyer Point. For more, let's bring in NDIS and Government Services Minister Bill Shorten, who's in Adelaide this morning, and Nationals Senator Bridget McKenzie, who joins me here in Melbourne. Good morning to you both. Bill, if I could start with you. So, none of this, None of the PM's behaviour officially breaks any rules. The flight upgrades, though, amount to some six figures, some over the course of his career, allegedly. It's a pretty bad look. What did he have to say to Cabinet the other day when you all met here in Melbourne?
BILL SHORTEN, MINISTER FOR THE NDIS AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES: Well, welcome from Radelaide. And I just think that the Liberal Party has wasted a week of the nation's life, which we're not going to get back. All they've done is try and throw mud and most of it's ended up on their own face. Where is Peter Dutton? I mean, he's famously got a glass jaw. Now we know he lives in a glass house. The Prime Minister declared all of his upgrades. How's that going, Bridget? And I just think we need to get back to cost-of-living.
ABO: But it is what we're all talking about. And I guess the issue, Bill, is that it isn't necessarily the best look at a cost-of-living crisis.
SHORTEN: Well, first of all, this stretches back 20 years. The Prime Minister is under an obligation to declare these matters. He literally has. And instead, we've had the opposition carry on like they are a choir of angels. So, they've got a - you know, they've put themselves up to a higher standard and let's face it, it's just blown up in their face.
ABO: Well, look, it has been messy on both sides. I mean, Bridget, you were on the show earlier this week. This is what you had to say. We're just going to play it back. Sorry. No, no, put you through it again.
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BRIDGET MCKENZIE, NATIONALS SENATOR: Very, very happy.
KARL STEFANOVIC, HOST: Did you ever ring Alan Joyce or anyone in Qantas?
MCKENZIE: I do not have a hotline to request upgrades. I have received an upgrade in 2018 that I declared, but to my knowledge, no Transport Minister other than Anthony Albanese has done this.
ABO: All right. We now know there is more than one. You are launching a deep dive into your own travelling. But it's an issue really for both sides at the moment.
MCKENZIE: Yeah, I think, you know, I was wrong earlier this week to be so emphatic. I did end up having an upgrade that I had declared, but it really highlighted for me the need to check the records accurately and to go to the source. Which is why I've written to three airlines to get the full log of upgrades and flights since becoming a Senator in 2017. I don't like to hold others to a standard I'm not prepared to subject to myself. I think that's really important. And I'll be obviously updating declarations and MPs are doing that right now across the board on both sides. Bill, I think, had to upgrade, you know, his declarations and that's appropriate.
SHORTEN: What?!
MCKENZIE: The difference between the Prime Minister and myself is that he –
SHORTEN: You just made that up, Bridget.
MCKENZIE: Sorry, Bill, if I got that wrong. It's okay, that's fine. There's MPs updating declarations.
SHORTEN: I like you Bridg, but…
MCKENZIE: Yeah, no, I love you too.
SHORTEN: Yes. OK.
MCKENZIE: But the difference between the PM and I -
SHORTEN: Well, you are only human, Bridget. I give you that.
MCKENZIE: - is that he’s the Minister in control of the aviation sector, right. He's the guy making the decisions on whether Qantas is subjected to more competition or not. So, it's a very - you've got the upgrades and that has to be declared absolutely, for public trust.
ABO: And that's where the questions of integrity come in. Because he was the Transport Minister at the time.
MCKENZIE: Yeah.
ABO: But to Bill's point before, I mean, you've got the Opposition Leader, Peter Dutton, throwing mud at the PM for this while he's getting around in a billionaire’s private jet. That is a terrible look.
MCKENZIE: Well, at the end of the day, Peter Dutton jumping on Gina Rinehart's airline, you know, flight meant we actually saved the taxpayer $40,000. That's actually the result of that decision and it was declared. So, Sarah, we've got to make sure, like I think we were all surprised -
ABO: But what’s the end game there, though. If he's jumping on the private jet of a billionaire's plane. I mean, is that not recognising that he has a relationship with her that may sway his decisions as well?
MCKENZIE: Well, this, you go to the exact point, what influence did the Prime Minister's receipt of these gifts which he's declared influence? His decision to continue to protect Qantas over the Australian travelling public. That's why people are so angry. We're all surprised at how angry everyone got last year in the Qantas inquiry. It's because they know they were being ripped off by Qantas and they've got a PM who wanted to protect them.
ABO: All right, well, let's see if more people come clean on this. Let's move on now to the COVID 19 inquiry findings.
SHORTEN: Well -
ABO: Bill, you want something more? OK, go on.
SHORTEN: No, the fact is, when Anthony Albanese is Transport Minister and he gets an upgrade, they say that's dodgy. When Peter, when Gina Rinehart's saving the taxpayer money, which -
MCKENZIE: [cross talk] our transport Ministers wouldn’t take upgrades
SHORTEN: - good of her, somehow, we think there's no influence issue. Like, if he's Prime Minister in charge of resources -
MCKENZIE: Bill, our Transport Ministers didn’t take upgrades.
SHORTEN: You guys have wasted a week, you held yourselves out to be rock stars. Mate, I don’t even know the name of your Transport Ministers.
ABO: Bill, come on, let's not get finicky now. I think the point is it's a bad look. We do want to move on because there have been some other things obviously happening this week and the COVID19 inquiry findings were handed down this week. Bill, they didn't bother looking at State Premiers. From what I understand, none of them actually gave evidence, is that right?
SHORTEN: Well, the inquiries looked at the federal response principally and it found that early on we were doing the right thing. But it did find that under Mr. Morrison it added about 2% to the national inflation bill. So, we're going to set up a - and it said we weren't properly prepared.
ABO: Didn't the Labor government ask for JobSeeker and JobKeeper to be extended?
SHORTEN: Yeah, but we didn't necessarily ask that it go, as you know, to Gerry Harvey and that they all make billions of dollars in profit. And the report has said that JobSeeker and all Those programmes cost 350 billion and, in the end, they were too generous.
ABO: All right. The other thing it found, - go on.
MCKENZIE: Yeah. I think Australians rightfully feel very shortchanged by this inquiry. You’re in the lockdown capital of the world, Melbourne.
ABO: It was a hard time.
MCKENZIE: Well, his office, my office, our communities were traumatised beyond repair, particularly our young people. And I think that's the great missed opportunity of this inquiry that we didn't actually as a nation look at because the big differential was the state, federal, you know, sort of application of restrictions. And so that's what we need to sort for the next time we get a pandemic.
ABO: And that's the issue, I guess, Bill, when we think about the next time we get a pandemic. We know the CDC is coming, but not until late 2026. If a pandemic was to roll around early next year, where are we left in this country? I mean, no one is going to go through those tough restrictions again, I'm telling you now.
SHORTEN: Well, listen, I think the nation did come together. It was an incredibly tough time time. I think this is a valuable report, though, because it does show that next time around -
MCKENZIE: [laughter] On behalf of a grateful nation…
SHORTEN: - we won't get the checkbook out the way we did this time.
ABO: All right. Well, we look forward to some changes that are much needed in that space. Bill, Bridget, thank you so much for joining us.