E&OE TRANSCRIPT
SUBJECTS: Northcott Dapto Disability Hub; NDIS reform
GRAEME DAY, HOST: It's coming up to a quarter to 10 and on the line is the Minister for the NDIS and Government Services. It's a very good morning to Bill Shorten, hello.
BILL SHORTEN, MINISTER FOR THE NDIS AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES: G'day, Graham. How are you today?
DAY: Not too bad, not too bad. A busy day for you. You're on the south coast?
SHORTEN: Yeah, it's fantastic. I was invited to be the special guest at a really moving event last night in Wollongong. The CEO of Greenacres, which is a marvellous disability service, 71 years old. CEO Chris Christodoulou after the last 11 years is finishing up and he's done a great job there, but it was really moving. A lot of the participants were there, their families, a lot of the good and the great of Wollongong, Ryan Park, Paul Scully, Alison Byrne and Stephen Jones. But most importantly, Chris and his family and the guy has made a difference. And today I'm going to the new Northcott Disability Hub in Dapto, which is going to be great for people with disability in the local region
DAY: It must be good to see government money going into these facilities and make it easier for people?
SHORTEN: Yeah, I'm a believer. I believe that one of the best things the Government can do with very important taxes people pay is make sure that people with profound and severe disability get a better chance. And, you know, really, I know Aussies don’t like paying tax, well most don't, but when it comes to things like Medicare and making sure that the profoundly and severely impaired have a chance for a more fulfilling life, you know, I think that's – it's great. And so I'm very motivated to make sure that the money gets through to the people for whom the Scheme, the NDIS was designed.
DAY: Now, the NDIS, it certainly had its problems. When you took over as the Minister, did you realise the enormity of what had to be fixed? How far it was off the rails?
SHORTEN: I don't – no, I mean, the short answer is no – I don't know if you've ever ordered anything on eBay and the photos look good, but when you get it, you go, hmm, that's not what I ordered? No, the truth is a bit better than that. The reality is the NDIS is helping hundreds of thousands of people. There's now 660,000 people receiving personal budgets and support. There's over 400,000 people work in the sector. When I sort of campaigned for the idea, like in 2008, 9, 10, if you’d said that we'd have a Scheme helping this many people, I'd have said, you know, what's that line out of The Castle when they talk about the price of jousting sticks? I’d say tell them they're dreaming. But the reality is it is doing good. When Labor lost in 2013, there were four trial sites. So, you know, credit to the Libs, they've got it up to scale, but their eye was not on the ball when it came to the back office functions, you know, the scrutiny of their payments, looking for quality. I mean, a lot of service providers do a great job, but there are some people who are attracted like flies to the barbecue, seeing government money just lining their own pockets. And I've been all about getting rid of the, you know, the snake oil salesmen and the crooks out of the Scheme.
DAY: And you've been fairly successful with that too, because when it first started, it seemed like there was an NDIS provider on every corner. But that has reduced somewhat because of the scrutiny that basically the Labor Government's put on it.
SHORTEN: Yeah, listen, this is a growth industry. You know, I used to be a union rep with the AWU and look after the steel industry. Steel is a big industry in the Illawarra, Port Kembla. There's about 20,000 people working still, but in the last 15 years, this NDIS sector has gone from none to – it'll be half a million people working in the next few years, which is good. The need was always there. So, it's a growth industry, but what we've got to do is make sure it's growing along set lines, that it's not the Wild West, that people are not selling snake oil and shonky therapies or just manipulating, treating participants and their carers and their families as human ATMs.
DAY: Can I ask you a question on behalf of the public? I think where the problem lies with the interaction of the public with government – people often say to me, with all the technology we have, for all the people that we have that are skilled, why is it with the NDIS, with Centrelink and what have you, why does it take so bloody long? It seems that there's so much waiting time there with people that need help?
SHORTEN: I have an answer. The reality is that you can't run human services without humans. And my predecessors had bought the digital revolution and they're right, it's much quicker to do things online. But not everyone wants to go online. We get 10 million people a year coming into Centrelink or Service Australia offices. The problem is the staff have been cut to the bone. Ten years ago there was about 37,000 people working. The deal was apparently that we buy all this fancy technology and we wouldn't need people. What we got instead was Robodebt. What we've got – we got down to about 27,000 staff and that's a disaster. So, now we're up above 30,000. Call waiting times for both Medicare and social welfare payments have now fallen and in other words, it's getting less time before you get answered. Would you believe I've just introduced a queuing system in Service Australia office where you ring ahead and you can make an appointment. I know that is not rocket science, but you know, this is a major development and with the NDIA, when people knew that we were reforming, we did get a sort of tsunami of extra claims in the last six months. People trying to proverbially, some people, getting in for last drinks before we turned the tap off of some of the scams. But that's now coming back to more manageable level. I'm sorry people have had bad experiences waiting. I know it is happening, but all I can tell you is that the KPI or the sort of key performance indicator I asked from my senior public servants is tell me waiting times every week on the phone. I just want to know are we getting it done more quickly and are we processing payments more quickly? Now I know for someone who's still waiting to get their old Age Pension sorted or their DSP, they might say, well, it doesn't matter what Bill says, I'm still waiting. The fact is, on a lot of indicators, like it's just evidence, so I'm confident to say it. We have – it is getting better, you know, the number of complaints that we get have been cut in half in terms of Centrelink. The other good thing is in the NDIS, the number of complaints we're investigating nearly doubled because we're putting more resources into investigating the rorts.
DAY: You certainly have done a great job. One thing just before you go, because I know you've got to go shortly, you've decided in the not too distant future to call it a day on your political career? You've certainly been high profile. You've seen the ups and you've seen the downs. When it comes to public life, what, what is the moment where you go, look, I'm going to step down and spend more time for me or my family because we often see it in public life and it comes out of the blue? Was it a long process of you thinking it through or was it just one day walking up the stairs going, you know what, I think I might like to do something else?
SHORTEN: Sort of a mix. I mean, first of all, I should say that for all the crap days – and sometimes you have them – I wouldn't give up a single day in the last 17 years. Probably the only day I'd give up is the day my mum passed. And other than that, you know, I'm – what’s that Frank Sinatra line? Regrets, I've got a few, but then again, too few to mention. I – no one in my family's ever been a politician, like my family – you know, my grandma was an air raid warden in Britain, and she lived in the northeast in public housing. My mum was the first in the family to ever go to university. No one – I pinch myself, it's a privilege to serve. When I occasionally hear about pollies lining in their own pockets, it drives me nuts because that's not what most of them do. I just think it's a privilege to serve. The hard thing is, when do you call it quits? When do you say, I'll do something else? Because I'm not retiring. I'm moving into another aspect of public life, helping adults, young people and adults do lifelong learning and universities, and how do we foster a spirit of critical thinking and enquiry in a generation? So, I'm going to a busy job, but it'll be less partisan, which is fine. I'm happy not to have to trade sledges every day. I mean, at a certain point you get sick of playing in the cricket team of sledging, which is parliament. I've mixed feelings. I love my portfolio. Not everyone in my portfolios loves me, but I love them, well nearly everyone. I love my electorate. I live in the northwestern suburbs of Melbourne. I've lived there for 35 years, like, I love it. Do you leave when you're going well, or do you leave when you're carried out? I had a choice to be a lifer and there's nothing wrong with that. I never wanted to be, with respect, a corporate door opener. That's what some politicians do. There's this myth that we all get pensions. We don't. We're very well remunerated, but I've always known the day after politics I'll have to find a job. So, I applied for the this job to run the university under my own steam. It wasn't a government appointment, so I've got mixed feelings. I love what I do and I'm really going to love helping the University of Canberra, but also higher education and TAFE. You know, I'm interested in – we can't stop learning and I think Australia does best when we're giving people the skills to equip – the future is changing so quickly. How do we help people? So, I'm going into a new facet of helping people, but I love what I do currently. I mean, when does a good athlete – not that I'm an athlete, but when does a good athlete stop playing footy? When does, you know, when do any of us, you know, you're a good journalist, when do you decide you want to do something else? It's not – I would give no advice to anyone else except always pick a job that you love doing.
DAY: Absolutely. Mate, thanks so much. Thanks for the job that you have done and say g'day to Stephen Jones for us as you do the opening today at Northcott.
SHORTEN: Sorry, mate, we broke up then.
DAY: I was just saying thanks for the job that you have done and say g’day to Steve Jones for us when you – both of you are there for the opening of Northcott at Dapto today.
SHORTEN: Yeah, well, that was – I'm going to look forward to Northcott today, but that was [inaudible]
DAY: Okay, mate. Okay, we'll talk soon.
SHORTEN: All right, good on you. Thank you.
DAY: Okay, great to talk to you. Thanks so much. Bye.
SHORTEN: Bye.