Minister Rishworth interview on the Today Show with Karl Stefanovic.

E&OE TRANSCRIPT

Topics: Cost of living; Supermarket price gouging; Consumer affairs; Nuclear power; Renewable energy; Brownlow Medal.

KARL STEFANOVIC, HOST: Welcome back. The consumer watchdog is taking legal action against Coles and Woolies, accusing the supermarket giants of misleading customers with dodgy discounts. Joining us to discuss today's headlines is Minister for Social Services Amanda Rishworth and Independent MP Monique Ryan. Morning, ladies. Nice to see you. Monique, what a spectacular and disturbing own goal from the supermarkets. Maybe we do need to break them up with divestiture.

MONIQUE RYAN, MEMBER FOR KOOYONG: No, I don't agree, Karl. Look, it is a really disturbing news that we've seen that the supermarkets have been effectively price gouging Australians for a long time and that's probably contributed significantly to inflation and to some of even the increased interest rates that we've seen in recent years. But we need more competition, not less. Divestiture would actually decrease competition and allow supermarkets to increase prices even more. We do need the ACCC and similar organisations to keep an eye on industry. This is appalling behaviour by the supermarkets.

KARL STEFANOVIC: Okay, Amanda, it wasn't your Government or the parliamentary committee – it was consumers who called all this out.

AMANDA RISHWORTH, MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES: Look, the ACCC does a very important job in this country and I'm really obviously going to be following this case. But it is disappointing if this turns out to be true for customers and very concerning. But we need to continue to reform, make sure we have competition in this country. That's exactly what the mandatory code of conduct for the food and grocery sector is all about. We also need to make sure that our merger laws are fit for purpose and that we do have the ACCC looking very closely at our supermarkets because consumers and suppliers deserve a fair go. So, look, this is important work and we'll keep doing it.

KARL STEFANOVIC: We've known for so long, though, that we suspected at least, that it's been happening. What's taken you so long to act?

AMANDA RISHWORTH: I think the ACCC has been getting on and doing its job and this latest action is one of a number of actions that the ACCC has taken. But when it comes to making the grocery code of conduct mandatory, that's been something, we're out for consultation on now with a draft we've been going through methodically with the Craig Emerson report to introduce all those 11 recommendations. It’s important work and we'll keep doing it.

KARL STEFANOVIC: Monique, that was a fair accusation at the start of this interview that this has contributed to inflation, maybe even interest rates. Do you stand by that?

MONIQUE RYAN: I do. And I really think that at a time of a cost of living crisis, when Australians are really struggling with the price of so many essentials, the behaviour of Coles and Woolworths has been unconscionable. We do need the ACCC, we need the Government to work on competition in lots of industries. I've been calling for a code of conduct for the aviation industry for some time as well. We need the Government to act on that in the same way that it's acted on supermarkets recently.

KARL STEFANOVIC: Well, have a look at the prices for flying to the grand final this weekend, it’s unbelievable. Let's roll on, though. Nuclear. Monique long after the price is forgotten, Peter Dutton would argue the power remains. What did you make of his announcement yesterday?

MONIQUE RYAN: Peter Dutton has been talking about nuclear, but he still won't give us the detail we need, which is the details regarding costing. The Government, any governments since the 1970s, if we look back to the Gorton government of the early seventies, have looked at nuclear. There have been so many inquiries into the potential for nuclear energy in our electricity market for more than 50 years, and every single one has found that nuclear just doesn't compare to the other sources of electricity. People need cheaper power. We need to be able to be confident that we have a secure electricity supply in this country. Nuclear power is not the answer. If Peter Dutton really believed in this, he would have evidence of the cost effectiveness of the nuclear option. He doesn't, and that's why he hasn't presented any costings to the Australian public.

KARL STEFANOVIC: But you'd go for it if he found the Willy Wonka chocolate bar answer to it all?

MONIQUE RYAN: I think all Australians want cheaper electricity. We're struggling with the cost of power. We get our energy bills and they're horrible. But nuclear is not the answer. There's no evidence. There never has been in the multiple inquiries over 50 years to ever suggest that nuclear electricity is a cost effective option for this country.

KARL STEFANOVIC: Amanda, he reckons Bob Hawke could go for it. Surely that's enough for you.

AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, I have to say that was the art of distraction from Peter Dutton. I mean, he is, you know, verbaling, effectively a former, revered Labor leader. Someone that can't give a right of reply because he passed away tragically five years ago. I mean, he could have actually turned up and told us what the cost was, told us how long it was going to take to build, rebut every expert that is saying that nuclear is more expensive, more risky and won't keep the lights on, but instead he chose the art of distraction. He could have channelled Malcolm Turnbull, who is very, very vocal on this issue. Who says it's an absolute disaster. So, maybe he needs to look at his own leaders first.

KARL STEFANOVIC: Righto. Finally, footy and fashion were on show at the Brownlow last night with Carlton captain Patty Cripps taking home the AFL's highest honour. Monique, I feel like this was a great moment for you personally. Talk to us about how that made you feel.

MONIQUE RYAN: So, you can see probably, yeah, you can probably see Karl I'm carrying a picture here, a signed picture. Patty Cripps wishing me all the best for all the good work that I do in Canberra as a Carlton supporter. It was a lovely night. It was lovely to see Patty take home the Charles Brownlow medal. He is an absolute champion. And after a pretty tough year, it was a good thing for Baggers supporters to see.

KARL STEFANOVIC: I'm getting a little bit emotional. You, Amanda?

AMANDA RISHWORTH: Oh, look, he was an absolute star on the field. You couldn't deny that. Broke the record in terms of the number of points and probably an honourable mention to Nick Daicos, who also broke a record. So, look, it was a special night and congratulations to everyone.

KARL STEFANOVIC: Good on you ladies. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.