E&OE TRANSCRIPT
SUBJECTS: CFMEU ALLEGATIONS; ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT ON FORMER US PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP; AND MYGOV BIRTH OF A CHILD PILOT.
GREG JENNETT (HOST): Here in Australia, Anthony Albanese has echoed Joe Biden's sentiments, even though the kinds of threats posed by guns mixed with partisan politics in America aren't as obvious in this country. We discussed this, and what's happening in the construction union, when Cabinet Minister Bill Shorten joined us from suburban Canberra a short time ago. Bill Shorten, welcome back to Afternoon Briefing once again. Now, we will come in a moment to a Government Services announcement that brings you back to Canberra this very wintry day. But I thought I might start by asking about the CFMEU, in your home state of Victoria. Premier Allan, you'd be well aware by now, has asked that Labor's national executive suspend the construction division there in Victoria from the ALP. In light of what has emerged here, Bill Shorten, why shouldn't that suspension precautionarily be extended nationally?
BILL SHORTEN, MINISTER FOR THE NDIS AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES: It'll be a decision of the national executive, but I think we can all see the direction it's going in. I know that, when I was Industrial Relations Minister and I stepped in to fix and deal with the sort of warring cartels of the health services union back in 2012, suspension of their ALP affiliation was part of what happened. So I'm sure Premier Allan's given the lead and I think other state jurisdictions will ask the national executive too.
JENNETT: Okay. So you actually think there could be a trend here that does in fact extend beyond initially the state of Victoria?
SHORTEN: Well, it's a matter for the organisational wing. But, you know, it's clearly one of the levers which Labor's got, and I'm sure the people in charge will look at using that lever.
JENNETT: Now, separately to those deliberations by your own party's national executive, the CFMEU's national office has placed the Victorian branch under administration. Do you have confidence in that? The question is, how can it investigate itself independently as it asserts that it will?
SHORTEN: Well, Minister Burke, who's the Commonwealth Minister for Workplace Relations, has said that all options are on the table. Prudentially, he's making sure that whatever options he recommends to the Government and he exercises as Minister can stand up in any test in court. But I don't think we'll have very long to wait before we see what the options are. I just want to say to viewers, most people going to work today who belong to unions are not bikies and they're not engaging in corrupt conduct. There's a lot of reps, even in this hospital, but right around, do the right thing, want to make sure people are safe at work, want to make sure people get paid properly. But clearly, the investigations and some of the footage and the stories which we've seen in very recent days show that there is a pathology of engagement by some in the construction sector with criminals and bikies. That has to stop. They have no home in the Australian trade union movement.
JENNETT: As you say, Tony Burke is seeking advice on this. Do you, at a prima facie level, see grounds for de-registration?
SHORTEN: De-registration is one option. Another option is the Federal Government putting in administrators. The Minister is going to look at the options. I know he's getting the best possible advice. The point about it is the conduct which has been uncovered, displayed is unacceptable. It's unacceptable. It's not the way- it's a betrayal of honest men and women of the Australian trade union movement. I know that many different unions will be just quite appalled. And also, there'll be plenty of people in the construction sector who do not do the wrong thing. But there is no place for outlaw motorcycle gangs and organised crime to have any dealings with the Australian trade union movement. The Australian trade union movement has, through its history, been one of the most honest trade union movements in the world. And this is wrong what we are seeing and it needs to be stopped and stamped. Full stop, it's got to be got rid of.
JENNETT: The fact that we're talking about this today, Bill, I will suggest, should be attributed mostly to the work of journalists at Nine Media in their investigations. Do you assert that the system itself was working here, be it either industrial regulation or criminal processes? There's no evidence that existing mechanisms were onto this, is there?
SHORTEN: Well, good point, Greg. You know, it just goes to show that my predecessors had the Trade Union Royal Commission. Remember the disgraced Justice Heydon? They went after Prime Minister Gillard. They were happy to interview, put me in the box for 1000 questions. They never once asked a Victorian CFMEU official a question. They didn't even send them, you know, a cross-tweet. So what was happening before wasn't working. And this is unacceptable conduct.
JENNETT: Right. So you maintain, do you- and this is the last question on this matter because we do have some other things to cover. But do you maintain, Bill Shorten, that if a building and construction watchdog, the commission that is, had existed, this would not have been detected by them either?
SHORTEN: Greg, the only way that statement could be correct is if all these crooks suddenly materialised in the last year. It doesn't appear like they did. This has been around for a while. This is what the behaviours have become entrenched. The ABCC was more interested in arguing about what you had as your bumper sticker on your helmet or a flag on a crane. They didn't- you know, but they could drive past some of the real tough to root out crime. So, sure, we need to root this crime out. But I tell you what. Conservative Trade Union Royal Commissions and the ABCC, what were they doing when all of this was going on?
JENNETT: No, fair question. Look, let's move on. We'll ask those questions, put it to others as the week goes on. Bill Shorten, the conduct of democracies in hotly contested politics is obviously front and centre around the world right now after what we saw in Butler, Pennsylvania. These exaggerated or hyperbolic forms of political attack and denigration, which we see, even in Australia, I think it would be fair to say. Do you have any confidence that will be toned down here or elsewhere after the events in Butler?
SHORTEN: Well, I can't speak for what happens in America. I am relieved that that assassination attempt failed. Although I acknowledge that at least one attendee has died and two are seriously injured. But I am relieved that this shooter failed in what they- this gunman failed in what appeared to be their purpose. America has had a history of political violence greater than Australia. Uh, from Abraham Lincoln to John F Kennedy. Even to the attempted killing of president Reagan. But there's no doubt that the hyperbolic language, the vitriol, is- creates, I think, a less safe environment. One of the things which is great about this country is your politicians don't need to move around in armoured limos and guards and, you know, you can go and do the shopping. Occasionally you will get a constituent who will give you a piece of their mind. And that's not always fun, but that's what- that can happen, and that's just democracy. But what I worry about is that between the, uh, unhinged trolls on social media - and of course, you've got the platforms who shrug their shoulders and say, not my problem, even though they're making money out of running these platforms - to are a lot more of the aggression. And too many Australians, I feel now the debate- we are in our own silos, agreeing with each other and shaking our fist at the people in the other silo. There's nothing wrong with our adversarial politics in Australia. That's the Westminster system. But there's no doubt that the level, the extremity. Some of these, for example, pro-Palestinian protests, they are crossing a red line. And whilst we're different to America, I don't think we are so different that we shouldn't just follow the Prime Minister's advice and just increase the level of civility. You're allowed to disagree with me, I'm allowed to disagree with you, but that doesn't mean you're my enemy. And we've got to just dial it down.
JENNETT: Now, there are trends that run in parallel between Australian democracy and US, for sure. Can I just ask broadly, as someone who's been in the system for quite some time, are you satisfied with the level of protection afforded by the AFP and, where relevant, state police?
SHORTEN: I think our state and federal police do a great job. But there's no doubt that the level of rancour and has increased. I pride myself on interacting in my community. There's no doubt - talking to colleagues - that the temperature is up. The temperature is definitely up, and it's headed in the wrong direction. I get that people might not like decisions of political parties and that- it's okay to protest. It's okay to disagree. It's okay to write to your member and tell them you think that member is dim, you know, whatever. But the level of abuse, I feel, is as intense as it's been in 17 years that I've served- had the privilege of serving.
JENNETT: Alright. Well, we'll keep across further developments there, including with the federal police if we get the opportunity. Finally, because I promised: Bill Shorten, Government Services, that's what brings you to Canberra this Monday. And for parents, registering the birth of a baby is, I suppose, the first necessary but sometimes tedious interaction that they will have on behalf of their child for 18 years or so. You're looking to integrate the registration of a baby on a trial at the ACT level with Federal Digital Services. How will this work?
SHORTEN: Well, a bit of good news after the doom and gloom of everything from the attempted assassination of President Trump to bikies in the construction sector, this is actually good news. One of the things that we haven't learnt to replicate in our busy lives is time. And when you have a family at a hospital, the birth of a new child, just- that's the best thing that can happen. It's a great opportunity to get the paperwork done on the spot. But at the moment there's seven different forms, so there's been work underway for some period of time that if we can- rather than ask people for the same information seven different times, or indeed missing the family as they go out the hospital, and then you can take months and months to find the kid again. We digitise it, tell us once, and it just means that we- your child is set up for Medicare. We've just got the records so that parents don't have to be on the phone or on a digital portal pulling their hair out after they've left the hospital. And the funny thing about all of this is that if we can use digital services at key life points in the cycle of a person's life, it actually starts to build back trust in government. And what binds this topic, funnily enough, to the others, is if we can get the citizens to trust the government to be competent on the basics, it might just build up a little bit more trust in society and in government generally. And I have to say, both sides of politics are committed to the digital- to the life cycle approach. But this is progress, and it's just good news.
JENNETT: Well, there's an uplifting way to end and to draw a trend line or a link across all the subjects that we've been covering today. Bill Shorten, we'll thank you once again. Always good to have you back with us.
SHORTEN: Yeah, likewise, Greg, thank you.