E&OE TRANSCRIPT
NATALIE BARR: For more, let's bring in Social Services Minister Tanya Plibersek and Nationals leader Matt Canavan. Morning to both of you.
MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES, TANYA PLIBERSEK: Good morning.
BARR: Tanya, they reckon your backflip on some of the budget measures and Pauline Hanson's multiculturalism debate helped get you guys in front this time. What do you think?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, look, it's a modest improvement and of course that's welcome, but we know that Australians are still feeling the pressure and that's why we're determined to make changes that actually make a difference for them. From the 1st of July, you're going to see higher wages. From the 1st of July, you see lower taxes. From the 1st of July, you see in my area, things like Paid Parental Leave hitting the full six months, $30,000, that's twice what it was when we came back to government. And we've also got measures like stopping supermarkets ripping people off with our new price gouging laws coming into effect. So yes, of course, any improvement is welcome, but we know that we need to provide real answers and real change to the pressure that people are feeling.
BARR: After the last six weeks, though Anthony Albanese would be pretty happy with those numbers, wouldn't he?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Oh, of course, like any, any improvement is welcome, as I say, but this is about real change and real answers. That's what we've got to keep doing. And the, you know, three opposition parties, they don't have real answers. They've just got a list of complaints.
BARR: Matt, it's another new low for you guys and also a new low for Angus Taylor, who's now attracting -20% in net approval ratings amid speculation his days as leader could be numbered too. How do you react to that?
MATT CANAVAN: Well, I'm a, I'm a half glass full sort of guy, Nat and the electorate's very restless. People are restless, understandably restless, because they've seen their incomes decline back to 2011 levels under this government. The cost of everything going through the roof. Government's not acting on migration. We're seeing that play out with the lack of housing and vacancy rates being at record lows. So, it's very volatile. You know, I was a, I was a jackaroo, a very poor jackaroo for a brief period in a previous career. And the first thing you've got to do is get the herd moving. And the herd is moving. It's just not going through the right gate for us at the moment. I get that we've got a bit of work to do there-
BARR: Yeah, it’s in another paddock I think for you.
CANAVAN: But we've got a very strong plan here to lower taxes. Yeah, exactly. That's what we've got to do, Nat. But we'll get a bit more time now, I think now that the government's lies have passed the parliament last week and I can't believe Tanya just said she's going to lower taxes.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We actually are.
CANAVAN: They just passed the biggest tax in our nation's history.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: And you voted against it.
CANAVAN: $77 billion increase in taxes. Increase in taxes. Yeah, we voted against an increase in taxes, Tanya. That's exactly right.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Last week you voted, you voted the against income tax cuts
CANAVAN: Now we’ll see the best, the most important figures, the most, taxes went up and that's going to have a big impact on our economy. And the biggest, the best number we're going to see, or the most important number I should say we're going to see in the future is the economic numbers, our auction clearance numbers.
BARR: Yeah, the tax cuts [inaudible]-
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: You know Nat, last week-
CANAVAN: [inaudible] they're the figures that are going to count the long term and these are not good right now.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Last week on this show, Matt said he was going to vote for tax cuts. He then went into the Senate and voted against tax cuts in Australia.
CANAVAN: We did. We did Tanya, this is all rubbish.
BARR: Well, they were part of the same bill.
CANAVAN: We split that bill, part of the bill out and voted for it.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: You voted against tax cuts.
CANAVAN: It's total rubbish.
BARR: Yeah. So, look, that's a bit hard because they're part of the whole bill. So, we know they didn't want to, but they, that's what they chose to do.
CANAVAN: Yeah exactly.
BARR: Moving on. Backlash from the budget is fuelling a real estate crisis with sellers now being told not to expect anyone to show up to their auctions as clearance rates plummet to levels last seen during the GFC. And it's saying values in some capitals tumble. If you own a home in Sydney, for example, according to Domain, it's going to lose more than $120,000 in value. That's over the next 12 months. In Melbourne, you are set to lose around $84,000 in value. Tanya, they are massive decreases. Is that what you wanted? Are those numbers what you're expecting?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, what we wanted is for first home buyers to have a shot in the market. And that's exactly what's happened. You go to an auction now and you see first home buyers for the first time in many years actually able to buy a home of their own because they're not competing against cashed up investors. We know that things needed to change in this country. There's generations of young people locked out of home ownership. That has an impact not just for them as individuals economically, but for how we are as a country for the sort of country we are. If young people feel locked out of home ownership as they have been, that really has an impact on the cohesiveness of our nation. So, we are so pleased that first home buyers are back in the market and they're back in a big way.
BARR: So, Tanya, are first home buyers the winners and homeowners the losers?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, absolutely not. I mean what you see-
BARR: Because their prices. If you own a home, your house price is going down in, in NSW and Victoria. So, that's exactly what's happening, isn't it?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: So, first of all, as you say, Nat, there's different things happening in different parts of the country. If you're selling a home right now, you're probably buying another home right now too. So, you're buying and selling in the same market essentially. But what we know for sure is that we are still not building enough houses in this country. We anticipate that house prices will continue to grow more slowly. They jump around a bit week to week. You don't make a decision week to week if you're buying or selling a home. You make a decision based on your long term interests. And we are confident that house prices will continue to grow more slowly. That's exactly what we want. That is exactly the change.
BARR: Well they’re falling. The projections are not for them to grow more slowly. The projections are for them to fall in Sydney and Melbourne, 6, 7, 8, 9% over the next year.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: And you don't have to think about this week to week or month to month. But longer term, what we want to see is house prices growing more slowly because Nat, young people have been locked out of home ownership in this country.
CANAVAN: But Tanya, first home buyers aren’t there either.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We need to change that. We need to change that.
BARR: Everyone knows their kids can't afford a house. We know that, it’s just how much you want them to fall.
CANAVAN: There was auctions where no one turned up.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: [inaudible]
BARR: Matt, let's go to you. Matt, let's go to you, are you happy?
CANAVAN: Well Tanya mentioned me, I think I deserve a reply.
BARR: Yes, Matt, could you reply to that?
CANAVAN: Well, no, not. I don't think anyone's happy. Everyone's, everyone's a loser right now. There were auctions on the weekend when no one turned up. Tanya said first home buyers are back up, well, when no one turns up, no one wins. The seller loses. The buyers aren't there. And the big problem now is the banks are pulling back finance. And I've heard this report a number of times and on forced small business roundtables in the last few weeks and banks and real estate agents are reporting that they're pulling back. And that means first home buyers don't have the money to go to an auction, and bid. That's why you're seeing these auction clearance rates really low. So, it's just a complete misreading of the mood out there. If we don't have a healthy property market, everybody loses. Our economy loses. First home buyers loses, homeowners loses. Everybody goes down. And this is the problem with raising taxes based on a lie. It hurts confidence, it’s hurting our economy. And as I said earlier, the economic results of what's going to matter
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Hundreds of thousands of first home buyers are using our 5% deposit. Hundreds of thousands of first home buyers using our 5% deposit and getting into a home of their own.
CANAVAN: Yeah, and they’re now [inaudible]
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: [inaudible]
BARR: [inaudible] some of them are now in negative equity where their house is now worth more than they owe the bank.
CANAVAN: That’s right.
BARR: We might talk about that next week but thank you. We've got to go to the news. Thank you. We'll see you next week.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: See you next week.