E&OE TRANSCRIPT
Topics: March for Australia, social security debt waivers for victim-survivors of coercive control
RAF EPSTEIN: So, we're joined by Ged Karney. She's the Assistant Minister for Social Services. Also, the Labor MP for the northern suburbs, seat of Cooper, Ged Kearney. Good morning.
ASSISTANT MINISTER, GED KEARNEY: Good morning, Raf. Thanks for having me on.
EPSTEIN: Do you think that was a far-right rally?
KEARNEY: I think there's absolutely no doubt that there are far right-wing groups involved, and it was very interesting to hear you chatting to Michael then saying a recruiting ground.
I think what happens with those groups is that they do prey on, you know, legitimate concerns of the community and perhaps insecurities.
There's no doubt that housing is a major issue, you know, insecure work. I think that there's a lot of concerns amongst the community and they hear people from the far right talking to them, unfortunately.
And yes, I think that they would use it very much as a recruiting ground. And what I really wish is that I understand there are concerns about these things, concerns about immigration, concerns about housing etc, etc. But there is a place to have a intelligent, legitimate conversation about those things.
And I don't think it's through a racist lens. I don't think it's through a violent lens. I think there's a place where we could actually sit down and have good conversations. And we do. The governments do do that.
EPSTEIN: Can I push back on that, Ged Kearney? Maybe the problem is people at that rally feel you're not actually having a good conversation about migration in the Parliament. That's why they are protesting.
KEARNEY: I don't think that's the case for the people that were rallying and recruiting, which is the concern for me.
Raf, I don't think they would care even if we were. I don't think that they would acknowledge all the hard work, for example, that we're doing on housing.
You know, billions of dollars we are spending right now trying to make sure that people can get to their own homes. And it is working. It is working. We are seeing we're finally starting to make a dent in supply of housing, for example, that will alleviate a lot of the pressure and, you know, for us to. I think we're very public about that and people know that. So, no, I'm not 100% on board with you there.
EPSTEIN: I know you've got an announcement, a really important announcement, about helping women fleeing domestic violence, and I do want to get to that issue. But if I can just zero in on this issue in one more way. If I look at congestion on the roads and housing and I point to the issue of migration, is that racist or reasonable?
KEARNEY: Look, I think there is always a reasonable conversation to be had around the level of migration. I mean, we've had that since Federation. You know, we needed immigration to make sure that we could build the Snowy River Mountain Scheme. You know, we needed immigration to make sure our economy grew year on and year out. Always been having conversations about immigration and we look at skills, you know, we need people to come here with skills, for example, to make sure that our economy can, can provide the things that we all need, like housing, like manufacturing, like health care.
So, we've always been having conversations about immigration and there will always be varying views about it. But my plea is to have it in the right lens, like what does this country need? Not through a racist lens, not who. And on the weekend, I was lucky enough preside over a citizenship ceremony. We had nearly 200 people come and become Australian citizens. And I can tell you there were lots and lots of Australian flags, lots of pride, lots of joy amongst those 200 people.
And I just wish that was the focus that we had rather than ugly, hateful, violent rallies, because they did get violent and that's not the place to have those debates.
EPSTEIN: Ged Kearney is who you're listening to. Assistant Minister for Social Services in the Federal Government, Ged Kearney.
To get to something entirely different, you now have new powers as a government to waive Social Security debts when that debt is the result of domestic and family violence. Why that step?
KEARNEY: Well, these, to start with Raf, these were recommendations made in the 2024 Financial Abuse Inquiry. This was a recommendation made in the Robodebt Royal Commission.
This is a step forward, I think, in what is a very large all of government response to the scourge that is family and domestic violence.
So, victim survivors won't be held responsible for debts that were caused by coercion or abuse or out of fear.
So, for example, if you were getting a Social Security benefit and also working and your partner threatened to hurt you if you declared that because they didn't want their income to drop, you would raise a debt.
Now, before that, the people responsible in the department for raising notices of debt haven't been given any discretion at all and now they will be given discretion.
They will be able to have a one on one discussion with that person and sort out if there was coercion or a problem with family domestic violence. And this is a great thing because most of the people that incur these debts, you can imagine are low income, and First Nations people are overrepresented in these types of situations and we'll be able to really make sure that they don't suffer as a result. It's a good thing.
EPSTEIN: Coercion is hard to prove. How are they going to fathom what’s going on inside someone’s home, this public servant?
KEARNEY: Yes, it's a good question. I mean there is a whole range of - well, we will be training, first of all the people that work in this department of Social Services. We will be training them to identify risks, to ask the right questions, to pick up on the cues. So, there will be a whole other level of engagement with the individuals. But we'll also have social workers involved and a lot of the people that come to us to ask about their debts will be referred from financial advisers and social workers themselves. So, we're pretty confident that we'll be able to sort that out.
EPSTEIN: So, a really important part of this conversation, Ged Kearney, whenever I open up the phone lines on Services Australia, not renowned for compassion, not renowned for service, not renowned for getting it right, will this actually change things?
KEARNEY: I think so. I really do think so. As I said, we will definitely be offering training to the people that work there. There'll be a recognition, unlike, you know, the horrible nature of Robodebt, that was no human consideration. This is a really huge step to making sure there is one to one human interaction on these situations. So, I think it's a good moving in the right direction? Definitely.
EPSTEIN: Thanks for your time. Appreciate it.
KEARNEY: No, my pleasure, Raf, Thanks for having me.