E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TRUDY MCINTOSH: After separate allegations of assault by a group of Scots College teenagers in Sydney. Labor Minister Tanya Plibersek was one of many women who have voiced concerns about how the debate around these separate allegations has been playing out in the public. And she joins me now at the desk. Nice to see you.
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES: Good to see you.
MCINTOSH: You've crystallised the view that I think I've been hearing from lots of women about how the response to the allegations has fallen short of what many women had expected. Explain why.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Look, I think in the first hours after these allegations are made, it's really important that institutions make very clear the seriousness of the allegations, their concern for victims and survivors, and the fact that they have a zero tolerance approach to sexual assault. I have to say, the Swans, I think have, in more recent times, really taken this on. It's good to see them taking the issue seriously. I think the early hours, there was a lot of people focusing on what this meant for football rather than what it meant for the women at the centre of these very concerning allegations.
TRUDY MCINTOSH: Yeah, that struck me as well, whether there's this sense in the community of two separate conversations having, you know, men I've spoken to concerned about what does it mean for footy finals, and then women you speak to are saying, hold on, what about the women at the centre of this story? I take your point, though, that that recalibration probably has been taken on board by the Swans and that in and itself is probably an improvement of where we would have been years ago in these sorts of debates.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I think you have to recognise those improvements and, you know, acknowledge that that's a good step forward. I think one of the issues here is we know that boys really look up to their sporting heroes. Schools and our sporting institutions are two of the places that they get their role models and heroes from. And so when those institutions take allegations of sexual assault seriously, when they show that they're taking those allegations seriously, when they say that they have a zero tolerance approach to sexual violence or family and domestic violence, that matters, that sends a really strong positive message to young boys who are growing up surrounded by, I have to say, some very negative messaging online.
TRUDY MCINTOSH: Oh, for sure. Ahead of this weekend's game, the AFL women, the Swans team was playing this doubleheader, the first time that it ever happened at the SCG. There's this debate about whether there should be a show of support for the women, but then a boycott, potentially, for the men. Do you have a view on that?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: No, I really don't. I think women's sport has just grown so, so well in Australia. I'm so proud of our women's sporting stars, the footballers, the soccer players. We've got some amazing athletes, female athletes in this country, and I want to see more of it because I think actually seeing strong women playing sport at elite levels is great for girls to see that example.
TRUDY MCINTOSH: It’s important. I know you probably have seen some of the pushback to your comments on social media this morning. Coalition MPs are saying that there's effectively a double standard here. The Swans have stood down these five players over their conduct. And yet in the case of Luke Gosling, your colleague, he's a Special Envoy in the government, he's now been charged with these two counts of assault on the Chief Administrator. The AFL didn't wait for charges to act. The Prime Minister didn't stand aside Luke Gosling. Is that still tenable?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Look, I'm not going to comment. I didn't on the specific allegations against the footballers. I've made general comments about what institutions need to do to show that they're taking issues seriously.
TRUDY MCINTOSH: Yeah. Another matter that comes to mind here when we talk about the role of language in a conversation about domestic violence and violence against women, that we need men to speak up if this is happening. If they hear this in a conversation, they should say something. The Prime Minister's podcast appearance seems like something that won't go away here. We take him at his word, he wasn't meaning rude gestures, but in that scenario where the female comedian was making gestures about the Japanese Prime Minister's breasts, should he have called that out in that moment? Is that something we need to call out? We can't let that go by either.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I think people can understand the difference between allegations of sexual assault and a podcast.
TRUDY MCINTOSH: They can. But I suppose about this broader conversation about violence and the language that people use is important, right?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, I actually agree with that. I think it is important that we continue to show respect to women and girls in all of the public language that we use. But again, I think people can tell the difference between a podcast and a sexual assault.
TRUDY MCINTOSH: For sure. It's more, I suppose, about this broader debate, though, about if we don't call out things, even if it's uncomfortable in the moment. I'm sure it is. To just laugh along is an easier response, isn't it? It's harder to do that. But we're encouraging men to speak up on our behalfs as well. I would hope that people wouldn't say that about me, for example.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, I think it's wherever people can call out sexism, they should do it.
TRUDY MCINTOSH: And finally, in your policy area today, indexation means more payments are going to be increased.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: It sure does.
TRUDY MCINTOSH: Tell us about what that means for Australians and would it be better if we didn't have higher inflation, we wouldn't have to see such higher payments?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: So a month from today, we'll see an extra $4 billion of cost of living help to people on pensions and benefits. It means that an age pensioner will be $6,500 a year better off since we came to government. Someone on unemployment benefits will be more than $4,000 a year better off and someone who's receiving rent assistance will be more than $2,000 a year better off since we came to government. That indexation change from September will make a difference for people.
TRUDY MCINTOSH: Social Services Minister Tanya Plibersek. Appreciate you coming on.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: It's a pleasure.