THOMAS ORITI: The Member for Sydney, Tanya Plibersek, has been watching these developments unfold as we all have, and she's with us now. Good afternoon.
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES: It's great to be with you, Tom.
THOMAS ORITI: Thank you for joining us. Let's start with the Swans and the decision to suspend the five players. Have they made the right move, or do you feel they could have done more?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Look, I want to be really careful about what I say because obviously if there are further investigations and potentially legal matters, I don't want to prejudice anything like that. So, I'll talk in very general terms.
THOMAS ORITI: Sure. Absolutely, yeah.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: What I'll say is that I certainly think the Swans have taken a really important step forward today. In general, when things like this come up, I think it's very important that the organisations that have the opportunity to influence our society so profoundly, organisations like sporting clubs and schools, show that they take allegations seriously. I think it's always important to express concern for victims when allegations like this are made, and that we keep the victims and survivors at the centre of our thinking and our language and our, you know, what we're saying about incidents like this. And it's really important for institutions to reiterate that they've got a zero tolerance approach to family, domestic or sexual violence. I mean, sporting clubs, schools, these are the places where, you know, boys and young men are forming their role models and their heroes. They play such an important role, these institutions in our society. They have, the real key to changing our society in the way that we want to, which is to make sure that women and children are safe. Taking that responsibility seriously and using that power wisely is absolutely critical.
THOMAS ORITI: And a lot of that involves language, right. So, Andrew Pridham, the Swans chairman, said the five players are remorseful and the impact on their football season was clear to see, but that the football outcome wasn't a consideration. And look, I've been saying from the get go, you know, I couldn't care less about the damage to the club's brand or their finals prospects. If a woman's been harmed, that's all that matters. And as you say, we've got to be mindful that that's being investigated. But what do you make of that connection with footy? Do you think the Swans saying their willingness to torpedo their AFL season by suspending five star players proves how committed they are to upholding standards at the club?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Look, I don't want to sort of examine every word that's said because it is a very difficult time. It's a evolving situation. And I don't want to be too harsh on some of the, you know, measures that the club's taken. I think that the fact that they have taken action today is really important because some of the language and the coverage yesterday was really not focused on the women at the centre of these allegations and didn't really consider their needs or the expectations we have as a community to keep women safe. So, I think they've obviously come a long way in the last 24, 48 hours to improve that. I think a lot of the commentary that was around immediately after this that focused on the football teams chances and what it meant for football I think that was incredibly disappointing that, you know, the fact that we were having that conversation so quickly, when really that's, as you say, the last thing we should be considering. We should be considering the welfare of the person who's made the allegations first and foremost. I think, you know, that was very disappointing. But I certainly hope that, you know, our sporting leaders have heard that message.
THOMAS ORITI: Tanya Plibersek. I've got a text in. I'm not going to name the person and I appreciate you texting and I really do, but I'm just keen to hear your views on this. The listener says, I think it's time to stop talking about the Swans. It's very much a first world problem. Can we move on to something more interesting? I appreciate the text. I'm not trying to throw you under a bus. Thank you for texting in. But what I mean, the reason why we're covering this story , is not to talk about a footy club's chances in the AFL finals. It's to talk about our language around sexual assault and how clubs can be doing better. What would you say to someone who perceives this whole discussion as being a first world problem?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, you know, I similarly heard politicians last week say that they wanted police to stop focusing on domestic violence and get on with some real policing. I mean, we have catastrophic rates of sexual assault in this country, catastrophic rates. And we know that 92% of people don't report to the police. And in part, that is because they get the sort of sexist and misogynistic language we've seen on social media responding to the victims in these cases and victim blaming. If they do report to the police, in 85% of cases, those reports don't progress to a charge, and then when they do go to court, only a fraction are found guilty. And so we absolutely need to do better in our policing and justice systems to hold perpetrators of violence to account. But unless our big institutions are walking the walk on this, we won't see the big social changes we need. We know that one of the areas where we've seen an explosion of violence against women is in sexual assault where both the perpetrator and the victim are under the age of 18. These young boys are looking up to their sporting heroes and their teachers and their school community and the, you know, I'm thinking about Scots now, the fathers and old boys and they are getting their cues about whether this behaviour is okay from their heroes and their role models, and every man has an opportunity to be that great role model. We know that boys have got this terrible influence from the online world. They're seeing violent pornography before they've had their first kiss. It's the men in the real world that influence them to resist that. And we, all of us, every one of us has a role to play. Talking about this as a first world problem, I think, as you say, completely misses the point that we have an epidemic of violence against women and children in this country and we've got to deal with it.
THOMAS ORITI: For those who I know a lot of people have texting and saying we don't want to hear about this. There's a reason why we're talking about it. It's not to talk about a football club's chances, it's not to talk about a few players doing the wrong thing. There are broader issues that deserve this coverage and this discussion needs to be had and I hope people understand why we're talking about it.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: And Tom, I think that is, you know, 100% the point because we are saying these institutions with these role models, they are the best antidote we have to the pernicious influence of the online world that is really, you know, leading so many boys into increased rates of sexual violence in this country. Our real world has to be the antidote to that.
THOMAS ORITI: And as you say, the Swans, Scots College, you know, both institutions play a direct role in educating and inspiring men and boys. So, a discussion we, we need to have. Tanya Plibersek, we appreciate your time. I know parliament underway, so thank you for joining.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Thank you, you can hear the bells.
THOMAS ORITI: That's why I wanted to let you go. So, thank you very much. All the best.