MELISSA CLARKE, HOST: Alright, I want to bring in my political panel for the day now. So, we have Jonathan Duniam, the Shadow Education Minister, and Ged Kearney, the Assistant Social Services Minister. Thanks to both of you for joining us on Afternoon Briefing.
GED KEARNEY, ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES AND THE PREVENTION OF FAMILY VIOLENCE: Great pleasure. Hi, Jono. Hi, Mel.
MELISSA CLARKE: All right, Jono, I just want to start with you. Do you think we're seeing a nuclear renaissance and should Australia be a part of it?
SENATOR JONATHON DUNIAM: Well, I think the facts are hard to ignore when it comes to the jurisdictions that are embracing nuclear and accelerating with it. And I think Dan, who is part of what I think any good opposition would do in reviewing his policies, has gone out and looked at what's going on around the world. I think there is a lot of work for us to do yet before we can come out to the Australian people and say this is what we believe. Here is our policy formation. Our Shadow Minister, who I do respect in a huge way, has said he thinks this needs to be a part of it and I look forward to the work he brings to Shadow Cabinet between now and then. It'll all be speculative, but I do tend to agree with him that if we're serious about Net zero, if we're serious about bringing down power prices, then why wouldn't we have this, at least as part of our mix?
MELISSA CLARKE: Is he pre-empting the review that he's heading? If he's saying in his strong view it needs to be part of the mix when the party room hasn't had time to collectively agree on that?
JONATHON DUNIAM: No, I think that what he's doing is a very fair enough exercise. He's actually ventilating a number of the things that he's thinking about, working on, reading about, researching. Again, this is all a very, very important part of a coalition that lost the last election going about its business to ensure that we have all of the information we need to take to the next election, a good suite of policies and more importantly, arguments around them that Australians can buy into and support and hopefully that converts into votes.
MELISSA CLARKE: Ged Kearney, would you be happy to go to the next election campaign with an argument against nuclear power for a second time?
GED KEARNEY: Yeah. There's so much in this it's hard to know where to begin, really. First of all, is the Coalition committed to Net zero or not? There seems to be some debate there, like people are saying that people would leave the front bench if there was a commitment to Net zero. There'd be a mass exodus from, from the party if people committed to Net zero. On the other hand, we have people saying no, no. The answer to net zero is not nuclear a policy that was resoundingly rejected at the last election. So, in answer to your question, yes, I think that we would be very happy to re prosecute that. I know that Dan's come back, he's all a bit of fluster about what he saw in America. Got very excited about, once again, the old trope about nuclear micro-reactors that I'm in my 60s now and we've been talking about them for decades. They’ve never ever really got it together or got there. They haven't even been tested yet. These things that he saw in America are yet to be tested. I believe they're probably going to go into a testing phase next year. So, we're still a long way, a long way from ever really realising micro nuclear reactors, if we ever did want to do that in Australia. No, we, we are absolutely committed to net zero, unanimously. Across the party, we have been implementing policies at a furious rate to implement renewable energy, which Minister Watts said of course is the cheapest form of energy. And we are just getting on with the job of transitioning our economy and our energy mix into nuclear, which is the cleanest and the cheapest.
MELISSA CLARKE: All right, Jono, I just want to come back to you once more on nuclear. We do know that the transition we’re seeing take place and coal fired power exiting the grid, most of that is due to happen in the next 10 years. If your party decides to adopt nuclear, is it really feasible to think we could have a nuclear power plant of any size in Australia within the space of 10 years?
JONATHON DUNIAM: Well, I think that there are some realities around the timelines for commissioning such energy generation, which is why gas is an important part of the mix. And this is something that again was lost on the government. They're not keeping pace with the demands of this energy transition and what the community actually needs and what a growing economy actually needs, particularly one that's embracing AI. So, I think that they've missed the boat on that. Gas is something we will, I'm sure, see as part of our energy mix in the policy we present to the Australian people. And that is an important part, the big hole between now and 10 years time when we need to deal with some baseload energy generation like gas.
MELISSA CLARKE: All right, I want to move on to another issue, perhaps the perennial debate we see around funding disputes between the states and territories and the Federal Government when it comes to public hospital funding. Ged Kearney, you know the health system intimately and you also know that there is much frustration from the states and territories that there hasn't been a deal struck that they see as being the Commonwealth delivering the sufficient amount to the table that the Commonwealth had agreed to provide to up its share of the growth in costs of public hospital funding. Is the government going to be able to land a deal on public hospital funding by the end of the year?
GED KEARNEY: Well, I know that that is the hope now, and I know I am not involved in those negotiations, of course. And I heard your conversation with the Assistant Treasurer just before we came on. I have confidence in the Minister, the Minister for Health, Mark Butler and the Prime Minister. These conversations are incredibly complex, as you could imagine. The Federation is a complexity that is part of our life. And these debates and these negotiations have existed since federation.
MELISSA CLARKE: These current talks already had to be kicked over for another 12 months because the last deadline for them wasn't reached. Is it really an acceptable outcome if it has to be kicked over for another 12 months on the existing arrangements if you can't get it concluded this time?
GED KEARNEY: Well, you will recall when it was kicked over, a considerable amount of money was injected into the state's health budgets from the Federal Government for that interim period. It's not as if we're leaving people high and dry. And I think we have certainly shown as a government that we are committed to having the strongest and the best health system that Australians can possibly have and that they deserve. Our investment into Medicare in the last government was unparalleled, absolutely unparalleled. And I'm very proud to have been part of that in the health team and made sure that women's health was part of that investment. So, I don't think there's any question that we are committed to having a robust and fantastic health system for all Australians. And those negotiations will continue in good faith. I can absolutely guarantee that. And you know, it's a quid pro quo. We know that states have to come to the party and the Commonwealth has to come to the party. I'm confident that middle ground will be found.
MELISSA CLARKE: Jono, do you think the states are doing enough to uphold their end of the bargain, which is put more investment into these foundational supports that was part of the agreement. The federal government's been frustrated. The states don't seem to be developing those plans quickly enough. Do the states and territories need to be doing more?
JONATHON DUNIAM: Of course. I think on behalf of all Australians who want to access public health, all governments need to do more of all colours and both levels, states, territory and of course federal. I don't think it's okay for these sort of protracted discussions to come potentially risking people being able to access services, a cornerstone of our federal government's election promises. At the last election, earlier this year was all about ensuring Australians had access to good health care. When you've got Chief Ministers, Premiers and Health Ministers from across the country of different political persuasion saying something is not right here. The Commonwealth are not getting in and doing what they need to as part of the next round of negotiations, that is of incredible concern. And so I do find it curious that we just. Oh, don't worry, nothing to see here. It'll all work itself out on the day.
MELISSA CLARKE: Look, the coalition, when they. The coalition, when it was in government, never shied away from accusing the states and territories from trying to extract as much money as possible from the federal government. Do you really think it's that different now you're on the opposition benches?
JONATHON DUNIAM: No. And you might recall at the very beginning of my answer, I said all government, state, territory and federal need to do their fair bit. Because at the end of the day, we all represent the same people, the people of Australia who need to get into hospital beds and not sit in ambulances on ramps. So, yes, they play their games, but they've got to stop and actually do the right thing, strike a deal. And this is where this government must be held to account. Do the deal and do it properly.
MELISSA CLARKE: All right. I just want to ask you briefly both about one of the big international stories we're seeing today, and that's the flotilla attempting to bring aid into Gaza. Ged, there's a number of Australians on board that flotilla. We know many Australians want to see an end to the humanitarian disaster in Gaza. Do you think this is one way that Australians can be involved in trying to do that?
GED KEARNEY: I can completely understand why people are concerned about getting humanitarian aid into Gaza. The conditions there are deplorable. And we have, as a government, consistently and persistently called on the Israeli authorities to allow aid, humanitarian aid, through to the people of Gaza. It's desperate. So, I understand where the people on the flotillas are coming from. They are seeing that every day and they are wanting to do their bit. We, of course, don't recommend that people go into a conflict zone. We are concerned for the people's safety. The people who have been taken in by the Israeli authorities will be offering every bit of consulate help that we can to those people to make sure that they are safe and that they are returned safely.
MELISSA CLARKE: Jono, what's the Opposition's view here? Is this something that the Australian government should be making sure they provide consular help for the Australians who've now been detained by the Israeli naval forces?
JONATHON DUNIAM: Well, we have an obligation to do just that if there are Australians involved in any event of this nature, then of course that's what we must do as a country. Our government must provide those services. But like Ged, I understand people's concern and they want to do what they can to help. There are people with different views of course about what needs to be done in that region. But I would say to Australians, considering doing something similar. Going into a war zone is not a sound course of action. And while you might want to help, there are better ways to help. And I would encourage people to try and engage with the authorities, including our own Australian government, who know what's going on on the ground there. They've got resources to be able to manage these things as best they can and engage with the IDF and of course Palestinian authorities. I think it's important that people don't put themselves in harm's way necessitating consular support of this nature. I think that is ill advised.
MELISSA CLARKE: Alright, look, I appreciate your views on all of those issues. I'm sure there's more we could get to, but that's all we've got time for today. So, Ged Kearney, thank you to you and Jonathon Duniam and thank you to you too.
GED KEARNEY: Thanks Mel.
JONATHON DUNIAM: Thanks, Ged. Thanks, Mel