E&OE TRANSCRIPT
Topics: US beef imports, childcare reforms, penalty rates
HOST, ALI MOORE: Ged Kearney is Assistant Minister for Social Services and the member for Cooper, Ged Kearney. Hello.
GED KEARNEY, ASSISTANT MINISTER: Hello. How are you Ali?
ALI MOORE: I'm good. I'm going to get to that legislation and I know this is not your portfolio, but as a senior government representative, can I just ask you about the lifting of the import controls on American beef? Because we've spoken with the National's David Littleproud. We know that the cattle industry as well is calling for an independent review, before this lifting of restrictions actually comes into effect. How much do we know about the strength and control measures that the US has put in place and is it reasonable for the industry to ask for an independent review?
GED KEARNEY: Well, this has been going on, I think, you know, we need to remind everybody that, well, first of all, the Labor government will never, ever compromise on biosecurity. We have one of the strongest biosecurity systems in the world and we are really very, very proud of that. And the US beef imports review has been going on for 10 years now. 10 years. I think it's time that really that it was put to bed. You can't just constantly be reviewing something. And so the Department of Agriculture have run this review for the past decade. It's absolutely satisfied that the strength and control measures put in place by US do manage biosecurity risks. And it is absolutely the Department's decision to lift that ban. And we have every confidence in the Department and our biosecurity measures. As I said, they are, we have some of the best biosecurity measures in the world.
ALI MOORE: But we heard from David Littleproud that he and the industry had a briefing earlier today and they couldn't, they weren't given the protocols, they couldn't be told by the Department exactly what is happening. And I guess if there's so much confidence in, in the Department's decision, then putting in place an independent panel wouldn't be difficult, would it? Because you'd be confident about the outcome?
GED KEARNEY: Well, we are confident. We have regularly and extensively engaged with all of the key stakeholders, including cattle Australia, the meat industry and the other peak bodies in this area. And we had a 75-day public consultation period. We only received five submissions, I'm told. I wasn't part of that because as you say, this isn't my portfolio Ali. And look, I am absolutely positive that the Government would not be going through with this if they didn't have 100% confidence in the Department. Now I wasn't privy to that briefing, I wasn't there at that briefing, so I really can't comment on what happened there. You're probably better off speaking to the Minister about that. But I, as an Australian citizen, have every confidence in our biosecurity measures and I'm sure there's not a problem.
ALI MOORE: Let me turn to this issue around, well, overtime or a pay increase. It is for people who work under an award system. Why the need for legislation? Why not leave it to the fair work umpire?
GED KEARNEY: Well, as somebody who, well, has a past life in the trade union movement, I have seen arrangements made with employers where they do say to employers, oh, we'll scrap your penalty rates and we'll give you an increase in base rate, for example. And without really understanding what that means, many employees, many workers have signed up on those things only to find that their overall pay has actually decreased. We have what we call in Australia a Better Off Overall Test. That means you can't actually bargain away or you shouldn't bargain down so that people aren't better off overall after an agreement like that.
ALI MOORE: So, again, we've already got that. Why do we need legislation for this?
GED KEARNEY: Because we have found in the past that there's been, the Commission has taken up a lot of time to sort of work through those types of agreements. And I think enshrining it in law is another layer of safety. I mean, this will make it illegal to reduce an overtime rate or penalty rate and make somebody worse off. And I don't think that's a bad thing. I don't think anybody can argue that that's a bad thing. You shouldn't be worse off.
ALI MOORE: I understand the worse off bit, but if I wanted to bargain away my penalty rates for higher pay, if I did the calculation and I worked under an award, would I be allowed to do it. So, no one could impose it on me, but if I chose to do it, could I?
GED KEARNEY: Well, employers can still absolutely negotiate on penalty rates. They would have to do it through the enterprise bargaining process, which is, you know, pretty widespread in Australia. We're very lucky to have that. And they would still have to make sure, however, if they were doing it through an EBA, which is usually done through a union, that no worker is worse off, and everybody should join their union. I can put in a little plug there. So, really, the objective of this, Ali, is not to make anything more difficult. It's not to make life more, make it harder for employers. It's to protect workers in our economy who are often the lowest paid and most vulnerable, who have the least bargaining Power and who really aren't able to really, you know, make sure that what they are accepting from an employer is better off for them. I think it's a great thing. As someone who's been in the trade union movement for 20 years, I have seen good employers and not so good employers and this is making sure that everybody is on a more even playing field. I think it is a really great outcome for workers in this country.
ALI MOORE: You're listening to the Assistant Minister for Social Services here on 774 Drive. Ged Kearney is with you. Ged Kearney, and talking about low paid workers. I want to ask you about childcare and in particular that piece of legislation that was put to Parliament yesterday. Looks like it will get through. The whole idea is that it gives the Government the ability to cut funding to childcare centres if they don't meet safety and quality standards. I've listened to the Minister for Education, I've listened to the Minister for Childcare, and I am still confused about how this will work because essentially doesn't this mean that the Federal Government will be solely reliant on state regulators to tell them if something is wrong? And yet there's nothing in this legislation that beefs up those regulators or talks about how often they need to regulate or, you know, gets involved in the resource that they have.
GED KEARNEY: Okay, so first of all, I've talked to you about this before, Ali. We are a Federation and those regulations are handled by the states and territories. And I think this is a new lever. This is a lever that the Commonwealth Government has. We don't have many levers when it comes to this area into childcare and early education. We do fund the sector though, and that is a very powerful lever. So, we looked at, you know, what would have the biggest impact from the Commonwealth Government in preventing these situations happening again. And I think losing your funding is an incredibly powerful lever.
ALI MOORE: But does that mean, Ged Kearney, that today, before this legislation is passed, if a centre is not up to scratch, either safety or quality, you can't pull funding?
GED KEARNEY: I think that this is a unilateral one, actually this one I think there were instances and I'm not entirely over all of that. It depends. In the past it has depended on the series of what's happening, etc. But this is unilateral, gives the Federal Government the absolute power to cut funding if indeed we think there is a problem with the centre. But this is, the other thing I wanted to say, Ali, that this is not the only thing that we are relying on. We are working with the states and territories on a whole suite of checks and balances, like the early educators register. I think this will be a fantastic innovation where there will be a register of all workers. We will be asking the states and territories to speed up, nationalising that register so that each state and territory can see flags on all of workers, no matter what state they've worked in. And that is coming online very quickly. We are beefing up our working with children check system, which is also a state and territory system. But we try, you know, as Commonwealth, we are trying to work with all the states and territories playing that role, if you like, of nationalising these things, standardising these. Across the country, we have looked at things like making sure that personal devices can't be used or restricting use.
ALI MOORE: Well, you're looking at it. It's still in train. I guess we will wait to see what, you know, what other steps are taken and how long it takes to take those steps. Ged Kearney, thank you for joining us.
GED KEARNEY: No, thank you. And I can just say to parents out there, we really are taking this incredibly serious and seriously, we understand the pain that this has caused and we are really doing our best to try to stop this.
ALI MOORE: Thank you for joining us.